Club Statement: Coronavirus

[number4.]

As I said, in that case no one (including FIFA, uefa etc) can compel the player with a contract at a new club to agree to play for current club beyond 30 June. If he agrees then he takes the risk himself.

I agree completely with your post above though that this sets up an unfair situation where for example niasse might agree to a short term contract and therefore play out the season for Everton, but for example willian might not at Chelsea as he doesn't want to risk injury and a lucrative contract elsewhere so they end up an attacker down for last 9 games.

This is part of the reason why carrying on after 30 Jun is not as easy as some seem to think.

you're right - it isn't straight forward for those involved and some teams will benefit from this and others will suffer, but that applies to every decision on how you conclude this season.

Also, for context there are 69 PL players out off contract at the end of this season which is about 20% of the playing staff, of them alot are third choice keepers, retiring players or some injured players as well. Even if the decision was you can't use anyone out of contract, again their would be winners to whom it makes no difference and losers like Chelsea who would lose Willian, Giroud and Pedro, but everyone would be able to field a team.

 

[catcherintherye]

Yep - again see your point & the league one example is a really good one, but as I said re Ziyech; to the best of my understanding he would simply be ineligable to play for new team during this season irrespective of when it is played. He is not registered and while he might be a player for his new club, he cannot play in this competition.

& again, you are right it is a legal minefield, but what I have argued since day one in this thread, that every outcome results in a legal catastrophe & the "just void & be done with it" is equally as complex as what you have raised above

I simply don't think it is. I've seen lots of people making the case, but very little evidence for why that is the case.

I mean it nicely, but the "solution" providing will bring up a multitude of legal challenges in a variety of different ways.I don't see any equivalent of that if the season were to be cancelled and voided.

I mean Belgium just cancelled and voided, has there been a single legal challenge? They have voided tier 5 and downwards, has there been a single legal challenge?

I think people confuse people being upset, with people having a firm legal case. You are not legally entitled to win a trophy. You are legally entitled to practice your trade and have commitments that have been made in contracts enforced.

 

[catcherintherye]

As I said, in that case no one (including FIFA, uefa etc) can compel the player with a contract at a new club to agree to play for current club beyond 30 June. If he agrees then he takes the risk himself.

I agree completely with your post above though that this sets up an unfair situation where for example niasse might agree to a short term contract and therefore play out the season for Everton, but for example willian might not at Chelsea as he doesn't want to risk injury and a lucrative contract elsewhere so they end up an attacker down for last 9 games.

This is part of the reason why carrying on after 30 Jun is not as easy as some seem to think.

Carrying on past the 30th, without resolving contractual issues is almost impossible unless you want to open up a pandoras box of legalism.

 

[number4.]

I simply don't think it is. I've seen lots of people making the case, but very little evidence for why that is the case.

I mean it nicely, but the "solution" providing will bring up a multitude of legal challenges in a variety of different ways.I don't see any equivalent of that if the season were to be cancelled and voided.

I mean Belgium just cancelled and voided, has there been a single legal challenge? They have voided tier 5 and downwards, has there been a single legal challenge?

I think people confuse people being upset, with people having a firm legal case. You are not legally entitled to win a trophy. You are legally entitled to practice your trade and have commitments that have been made in contracts enforced.

regarding Voiding there are so many legal issues which may come about, some will some wont, but off the top of my head...

* TV rights dispute - BT and Sky feel they are owed their pound of flesh & will probably fight for it
* If records are expundged (which is what is suggested) What happens when Spurs dock harry Kane for all the goal bonus's this season, never mind that what happens when West-ham remove every single players appearance bonus from their next paycheck
* What happens in 8 years time when Kane retires 4 Goals short of Shearers record
* Season Ticket holders - nothing stopping a class action from fans against a club, you sold us a ticket for a season - it didn't conclude I'm entitled to a full refund; you could see a scenario where West Ham fans collectively try to stick knives into their owners via this kind of mechanic
* Gambling - if all records are expunged; are all losing bets refunded from every game?
* Relegation / Promotion / European places through all the leagues
* Jan transfers - teams could argue they specifically signed a player in Jan to avoid relegation and should get that money back if the season can't be concluded eg: Reina at Villa

I could go on & yes, in a way, I'm playing Devil's advocate & I appreciate someone will just say "Force Majeure" get over it, but that wont stop some of these issues ending up in a court of law. To me it brings as many issues a Pool of 69 players of whom the majority wont have a contract dispute.

Re Belgium; it wasn't simply voided - there was an agreed awarding of title, European spots have been allocated (subject to UEFA approving) and two extra spots next season to accomodate the likely promoted clubs, result in at least 6 extra games next season to best of my knowledge

 

[number4.]

Carrying on past the 30th, without resolving contractual issues is almost impossible unless you want to open up a pandoras box of legalism.

you do - but for a very small pool of players, in the PL at least

 

[Toast]

But, if a player has a contract, a legal document, how can any football body change that or it's terms and conditions ?

Didn't the Emilio Sala story show up how shady some of these deals actually were ?

 

[ToffeeTim]

Players now CAN stay on past 30 june if their contract expires but I still cant see how under employment law they HAVE to stay on.

 

[JobForTheMoyes]

Players now CAN stay on past 30 june if their contract expires but I still cant see how under employment law they HAVE to stay on.

Niasse!

 

[JobForTheMoyes]

regarding Voiding there are so many legal issues which may come about, some will some wont, but off the top of my head...

* TV rights dispute - BT and Sky feel they are owed their pound of flesh & will probably fight for it
* If records are expundged (which is what is suggested) What happens when Spurs dock harry Kane for all the goal bonus's this season, never mind that what happens when West-ham remove every single players appearance bonus from their next paycheck
* What happens in 8 years time when Kane retires 4 Goals short of Shearers record
* Season Ticket holders - nothing stopping a class action from fans against a club, you sold us a ticket for a season - it didn't conclude I'm entitled to a full refund; you could see a scenario where West Ham fans collectively try to stick knives into their owners via this kind of mechanic
* Gambling - if all records are expunged; are all losing bets refunded from every game?
* Relegation / Promotion / European places through all the leagues
* Jan transfers - teams could argue they specifically signed a player in Jan to avoid relegation and should get that money back if the season can't be concluded eg: Reina at Villa

I could go on & yes, in a way, I'm playing Devil's advocate & I appreciate someone will just say "Force Majeure" get over it, but that wont stop some of these issues ending up in a court of law. To me it brings as many issues a Pool of 69 players of whom the majority wont have a contract dispute.

Re Belgium; it wasn't simply voided - there was an agreed awarding of title, European spots have been allocated (subject to UEFA approving) and two extra spots next season to accomodate the likely promoted clubs, result in at least 6 extra games next season to best of my knowledge

The Belgians have followed the most logical path. Credit to them for showing initiative.

 

[Efcjake]

regarding Voiding there are so many legal issues which may come about, some will some wont, but off the top of my head...

* TV rights dispute - BT and Sky feel they are owed their pound of flesh & will probably fight for it

let them
* If records are expundged (which is what is suggested) What happens when Spurs dock harry Kane for all the goal bonus's this season, never mind that what happens when West-ham remove every single players appearance bonus from their next paycheck

Down to the language in the contract.
* What happens in 8 years time when Kane retires 4 Goals short of Shearers record
Nothing, he can sniff it.

* Season Ticket holders - nothing stopping a class action from fans against a club, you sold us a ticket for a season - it didn't conclude I'm entitled to a full refund; you could see a scenario where West Ham fans collectively try to stick knives into their owners via this kind of mechanic
Pro-rated refunds

* Gambling - if all records are expunged; are all losing bets refunded from every game?
No, why on earth we would they be? The matches happened they just don't count towards the season. Actually reaching so hard to flesh out your list here. Refund any bets related to the season finishes.


* Relegation / Promotion / European places through all the leagues
All void.

* Jan transfers - teams could argue they specifically signed a player in Jan to avoid relegation and should get that money back if the season can't be concluded eg: Reina at Villa
No, they couldn't. They paid for a player's registration and that's what they were given. You are really struggling here.

 

[number4.]

* TV rights dispute - BT and Sky feel they are owed their pound of flesh & will probably fight for it

let them
* If records are expundged (which is what is suggested) What happens when Spurs dock harry Kane for all the goal bonus's this season, never mind that what happens when West-ham remove every single players appearance bonus from their next paycheck

Down to the language in the contract.
* What happens in 8 years time when Kane retires 4 Goals short of Shearers record
Nothing, he can sniff it.

* Season Ticket holders - nothing stopping a class action from fans against a club, you sold us a ticket for a season - it didn't conclude I'm entitled to a full refund; you could see a scenario where West Ham fans collectively try to stick knives into their owners via this kind of mechanic
Pro-rated refunds

* Gambling - if all records are expunged; are all losing bets refunded from every game?
No, why on earth we would they be? The matches happened they just don't count towards the season. Actually reaching so hard to flesh out your list here. Refund any bets related to the season finishes.


* Relegation / Promotion / European places through all the leagues
All void.

* Jan transfers - teams could argue they specifically signed a player in Jan to avoid relegation and should get that money back if the season can't be concluded eg: Reina at Villa
No, they couldn't. They paid for a player's registration and that's what they were given. You are really struggling here.

All interesting Jake and agree with you on some, again I was just trying to illustrate that both options will pertain to some legal disputes. Carry-on there is ambiguity about certain contracts; Void you stumble upon a list of others.

Again, I really want to emphasize I am not trying to say one is more serious or likely than the other, just they both have challanges.

RE some of your responses.....

Season tickets - I disagree, you buy a seasoncard - you purchase attendance for the season, there would be grounds to at least persue a full refund, whether a fan group would win or not, who knows?

Kane Example - you say sniff it; but what happens if he has a 50m bonus in his boot deal with Nike or whoever if he breaks record?

Jan Transfers - You're probably right; but again there is an element of grey to it; also taking the Reina example, he could have a bonus if they stay up - if voided do villa need to pay? The list is endless.....

 

[arch stanton]

I simply don't think it is. I've seen lots of people making the case, but very little evidence for why that is the case.

I mean it nicely, but the "solution" providing will bring up a multitude of legal challenges in a variety of different ways.I don't see any equivalent of that if the season were to be cancelled and voided.

I mean Belgium just cancelled and voided, has there been a single legal challenge? They have voided tier 5 and downwards, has there been a single legal challenge?

I think people confuse people being upset, with people having a firm legal case. You are not legally entitled to win a trophy. You are legally entitled to practice your trade and have commitments that have been made in contracts enforced.

this is the point, this tort (unfairness/wrongdoing) is of nobodies making, any bodging of rules will upset some people and the bodge to the rules will have been of someone's making and those people or organisations that are wronged, can then sue the decision makers. Void is the safest legal option. I suspect that the procrastination is all parties (clubs/leagues/FA/EUFA/FIFA/Governments) are all hoping that one of the others makes a decision, then they are the ones to be in any firing line.

 

[Toast]

* TV rights dispute - BT and Sky feel they are owed their pound of flesh & will probably fight for it

let them
* If records are expundged (which is what is suggested) What happens when Spurs dock harry Kane for all the goal bonus's this season, never mind that what happens when West-ham remove every single players appearance bonus from their next paycheck

Down to the language in the contract.
* What happens in 8 years time when Kane retires 4 Goals short of Shearers record
Nothing, he can sniff it.

* Season Ticket holders - nothing stopping a class action from fans against a club, you sold us a ticket for a season - it didn't conclude I'm entitled to a full refund; you could see a scenario where West Ham fans collectively try to stick knives into their owners via this kind of mechanic
Pro-rated refunds

* Gambling - if all records are expunged; are all losing bets refunded from every game?
No, why on earth we would they be? The matches happened they just don't count towards the season. Actually reaching so hard to flesh out your list here. Refund any bets related to the season finishes.


* Relegation / Promotion / European places through all the leagues
All void.

* Jan transfers - teams could argue they specifically signed a player in Jan to avoid relegation and should get that money back if the season can't be concluded eg: Reina at Villa
No, they couldn't. They paid for a player's registration and that's what they were given. You are really struggling here.

Wouldnt mind me money back from crap bets actually Jake.
Could buy a new car probably.

 

[Tin-Tin]

Just tell sky/BT that they can have extra games next season instead of the rebate

 

[orly]

Don't forget that the betting industry will also be putting huge pressure on to stop a voiding of the rest of the season. Not only will they lose out on revenues from the remaining 90-odd matches (lots) but also all the ante-post bets will be voided. That's a bigger market than you'd expect.

Money again the core reason that there is zero chance of a void season.