Chelsea 1-1 Everton. Saturday 4th December @ 15.00.

[RFUS]

Can I be the Assistant..Just in case you get too defensive so I can remind you to attack...

Sorry mate now, i don't want you living with the burden of not being as good as Alan Irvine.

ARCHIE KNOX IN

I think I'd want Damon as the assistant manager. Just so he can give teamtalks, and have the players rushing out of the tunnel, with fire in their bellies, ready to get the "snides".

 

[ToxtethBlue]

Yeah looks good....For the moment...I like Coleman on the bench..He should of come on against WBA..His pace can frighten tiring defences about 70 min mark.....But this formation is never gonna happen under Moyes...I really don't know what is problem with attacking formations is...

He seems to go attacking when we are losing...It's ridiculous...fkn start attacking and reap the rewards...

The question I'd ask is how many teams actually play like that? Two out and out forwards and a very attacking minded central midfielder, it's very rare. We play 4-4-1-1, it's not like we stick five across the middle and hope for the best, Cahill plays in a slightly withdrawn role off the main striker, as a second striker. He's a forward in all but name. He competes against centre backs more than anything.

It's not the formation, it's more down to the players. Most teams that play 4-4-2 have someone who can drop in, Cahill is that man for us. The myth that 4-4-2 is the most attacking formation out there is a very limited way of looking at things. It's not a possession based formation. We would just end up getting the ball forward as quickly as possible and we aren't good at that.

 

[RFUS]

The question I'd ask is how many teams actually play like that? Two out and out forwards and a very attacking minded central midfielder, it's very rare. We play 4-4-1-1, it's not like we stick five across the middle and hope for the best, Cahill plays in a slightly withdrawn role off the main striker, as a second striker. He's a forward in all but name. He competes against centre backs more than anything.

It's not the formation, it's more down to the players. Most teams that play 4-4-2 have someone who can drop in, Cahill is that man for us. The myth that 4-4-2 is the most attacking formation out there is a very limited way of looking at things. It's not a possession based formation. We would just end up getting the ball forward as quickly as possible and we aren't good at that.

You're mostly right there, mate.

I think the main problem is definitely that we're too slow. We're too methodical, and our build up play, and our counter-attacks, are really slow and they allow the other team to set up their two banks of four.

However, having two out and out strikers up there does leave them that bit more stretched. Cahill, when we're not in possession, comes back to defend like he's a midfielder -- really deep, so we're never too well set up to counter. Add that to the lack of pace in the team too.

 

[davek]

On the evidence of the past few games, it's only when Moyes does throw on another attacker that we look dangerous to the opposition. Now that might be because we're chasing the game and the opposition are happy to let us have possession and force the issue, I dont know. I do know that at the moment we have some seriously underconfident strikers who - regardless of Cahill joining them when he can - dont look up for it. Obviously Chelsea isn't the time to experiment on this, despite Sunderland's example a few weeks back. Wigan at home I fully expect two to start up front. Beckford plus one.

 

[ToxtethBlue]

You're mostly right there, mate.

I think the main problem is definitely that we're too slow. We're too methodical, and our build up play, and our counter-attacks, are really slow and they allow the other team to set up their two banks of four.

However, having two out and out strikers up there does leave them that bit more stretched. Cahill, when we're not in possession, comes back to defend like he's a midfielder -- really deep, so we're never too well set up to counter. Add that to the lack of pace in the team too.

I think our build up play is good when our creative players, Arteta in particular, are in form. I agree about our lack of pace, Moyes has had long enough to bring a wide player in who has the legs to join in and make the formation more expansive.

I disagree on Cahill, I think there was a time when Tim was a 'midfielder', but times have changed and his role is completely different now. If you compare him to Lampard, for example, or Gerrard to a lesser extent, he does nowhere near the amount of duties in midfield areas, in terms of creativity and defending.

His pressing and chasing is either done on the centre backs or whoever the deep lying midfielder is. If we are being pinned back then he might drop in and make it a five, but that is very rare nowadays. This isn't a criticism of Cahill, he's doing really well to be fair to him, but that's his style.

If you look at teams who play similar formations to us, they all do the same thing. Manchester Utd, for example, might be 4-4-2 on paper, but Rooney and Berbatov are constantly dropping off and dropping into midfield. Ferguson has actually claimed he's never used 4-4-2 in all his career, which was quite interesting.

I think the key to this is introducing different players and making the formation we play as expansive as possible. A pacy wide player is needed, I wouldn't be against introducing Rodwell either, but he's far more athletic than the rest of our midfielders. Obviously we won't solve all our problems with the current squad, but it can be improved on, and the formation really isn't the problem.

 

[RFUS]

I think our build up play is good when our creative players, Arteta in particular, are in form. I agree about our lack of pace, Moyes has had long enough to bring a wide player in who has the legs to join in and make the formation more expansive.

I disagree on Cahill, I think there was a time when Tim was a 'midfielder', but times have changed and his role is completely different now. If you compare him to Lampard, for example, or Gerrard to a lesser extent, he does nowhere near the amount of duties in midfield areas, in terms of creativity and defending.

His pressing and chasing is either done on the centre backs or whoever the deep lying midfielder is. If we are being pinned back then he might drop in and make it a five, but that is very rare nowadays. This isn't a criticism of Cahill, he's doing really well to be fair to him, but that's his style.

If you look at teams who play similar formations to us, they all do the same thing. Manchester Utd, for example, might be 4-4-2 on paper, but Rooney and Berbatov are constantly dropping off and dropping into midfield. Ferguson has actually claimed he's never used 4-4-2 in all his career, which was quite interesting.

I think the key to this is introducing different players and making the formation we play as expansive as possible. A pacy wide player is needed, I wouldn't be against introducing Rodwell either, but he's far more athletic than the rest of our midfielders. Obviously we won't solve all our problems with the current squad, but it can be improved on, and the formation really isn't the problem.

Interesting points.


I think another problem too, is something LCAB kept saying: a lack of movement. Teams like United pass around and through the opposition, because the players not on the ball are always moving into space cleverly; losing their marker.

I don't think we do this too well. Only Cahill at set pieces, and Baines/Pienaar come to mind when I think of our players who can find space and/or get the ball past players. Arteta's been too slow recently, and like someone else said, he's turned into a crab; always moving sideways, never forward.

 

[TheDevils2001]

With Arteta & Jagielka likely missing I did like to see us, give this line-up a try;


----------------------- Howard ----------------------

----- Neville --- Heitinga --- Distin --- Baines -----

--- Coleman --- Fellaini --- Rodwell --- Pienaar ---

------------------------ Cahill -----------------------

--------------------- Saha/Yakubu ------------------


I just don't think Anichebe is quite ready to start a match, it would be better to see him sometime later on in the second half, we can opt to play Billy ahead of Rodwell, which I still don't think is a good idea as Billy still hasn't adapt to the pace of the Premier League. What ever line-up Moyes decide to used, I just hope the lads give a good performance and get us the result we all wanted to see.

 

[dixie1928]

Picking up on something that Toxteth Blue has hinted at, I think the major problem is that the established players don't actually believe sufficiently that we're going to do things. Tactics, formations and personnel matter ... of course they do, but with out that inner conviction, sides are always going to be on a winner against us.

DM's major job, in my opinion, is to reinstill that core conviction. This is where he earns his money.

Oh. Chelsea 2 - 9 Everton. Distin in seven goal wonderland. Heiinga with 2.

Nurse ... are you there ... ?

 

[TyphooToffee]

I'd like to see Beckford start every game. Let's face it, no one but TC is getting us goals and most of those are from set pieces so he doesn't need to play behind the lone striker for that. Besides, look how good the Yak/Becks partnership was in pre-season, and JB needs as much playing time as possible because, IMHO, I think he'll turn out to be a great player for us. I also think Mikel's absence is a blessing in disguise; his form hasn't been good lately and it'll mean LB-the-LB will take all the corners and free kicks.

By the way, did anyone hear me on The Fools' Panel on Hawksbee and Jacobs (talkSPORT) today? I predicted 2-2

 

[TyphooToffee]

With Arteta & Jagielka likely missing I did like to see us, give this line-up a try;


----------------------- Howard ----------------------

----- Neville --- Heitinga --- Distin --- Baines -----

--- Coleman --- Fellaini --- Rodwell --- Pienaar ---

------------------------ Cahill -----------------------

--------------------- Saha/Yakubu ------------------


I just don't think Anichebe is quite ready to start a match, it would be better to see him sometime later on in the second half, we can opt to play Billy ahead of Rodwell, which I still don't think is a good idea as Billy still hasn't adapt to the pace of the Premier League. What ever line-up Moyes decide to used, I just hope the lads give a good performance and get us the result we all wanted to see.

Nice line up but I'd have Beckford instead of Saha

 

[TheDevils2001]

Nice line up but I'd have Beckford instead of Saha

I fancy Beckford to start too, but he is only good when he has a partner meaning 4-4-2, and no matter what we all say playing the current champion away, that could only mean 4-4-1-1 for us.

So, Beckford starting it just ain't happening but one things for sure we would more than probably see him starting upfront in our F.A. Cup 3rd round tie in January!

 

[BlueTak]

I can't see this going well, so all out defence is what's needed.

Howard-Mucha
Coleman-Neville-Duffy-Mustafi-Distin-Bidwell-Baines-Hammar


Cahill

 

[faddy the blue]

No Hibbert! FFS. Terry must be relieved!

 

[Gary_Lineker_85/86x3 (stephenneedley@googlemail.co]

Are We In Pink Kit Tomorrow..We play like a bunch of girls in that kit....Then again We also play like a bunch of girls in the blue kit too...

 

[Alio]

Are We In Pink Kit Tomorrow..We play like a bunch of girls in that kit....Then again We also play like a bunch of girls in the blue kit too...

Think ijjysmith said it was the Vanilla kit tomorrow.....