Can we beat seventy two points ?

[davek]

Fair enough.

No manager in the history of world football would have got this current crop of footballers any closer to CL football (no matter the points) than we did this year.

In my own opinion of course. We're the 7th best team on paper. And as it turned out, in reality too.

It's on the quality of player. And I really worry that we won't ever be able to bring in much better than we have.

We had the best striker in the league for much of the season, the same players who got 5th were still at the club. The mess inherited was an attitude problem not a skill one. 61 points this season is adequate. Nothing more than that. With the lowest workload of any PL team this season (41 games) we could and should have gotten more points. The away from was relegation calibre.

 

[ijjysmith]

We had the best striker in the league for much of the season, the same players who got 5th were still at the club. The mess inherited was an attitude problem not a skill one. 61 points this season is adequate. Nothing more than that. With the lowest workload of any PL team this season (41 games) we could and should have gotten more points. The away from was relegation calibre.

We did have the best striker for a bit yes. Some of the same players who got 5th ..... three years ago....and the same ones who finished bottom half the next 2 seasons. A lot of them are not good enough. I'd say it was an attitude problem AND a skill problem.

But no matter that, our squad is the 7th best in the league.

 

[Saint Domingo]

What people forget about Martinez's first season was the impact of players like Osman Pienaar and Naismith. In my eyes the creativity of even a fading Pienaar and Osman has not been replaced. Look back at that season and see how many points they earned us by involvement in goals. The Barry McCarthy midfield was defensively solid but the creativity came from out wide. Martinez was also back then brave enough to bench Lukaku often bringing on Naismith after 70 mins to offer something different. In his second season Pienaar and Osman were not adequately replaced and Martinez favoured far inferior less creative players like Etoo Atsu and then Cleverley Kone on the flanks or playing Naismith or Barkley out of position there. We lost any sort of joined up play and the team fell apart to the point were it brushed with relegation (until Osman came back fit and won us a couple of games), he also stopped even subbing Lukaku, a trait which Koeman has sadly continued.

Until we add real footballers to this side we don't touch 72 points again. We can't keep hoarding defensive midfielders and headless chicken wingers under the illusion that Barkley is some magical creative force. He's not. We need better versions of Arteta Pienaar and Osman in their primes, offensive players who can interchange and make everyone around them look better. At the moment we have no one in the side who can dance around a few players who work a clever one two, it's like watching a bloated robot shunting forward slowly, a boring grind. These players cost money but that's what we have to target.

 

[Saint Domingo]

We did have the best striker for a bit yes. Some of the same players who got 5th ..... three years ago....and the same ones who finished bottom half the next 2 seasons. A lot of them are not good enough. I'd say it was an attitude problem AND a skill problem.

But no matter that, our squad is the 7th best in the league.

Sometimes I look at Southanptons and Leicesters and I wonder if ours is the 7th best. We haven't got anyone close to a Mahrez or a Van Dijk, they've both got keepers who would walk into our side. Leicester have 2 left backs who could probably get in, Southampton one, we have an ageing Baines. Gray would get in, Vardy would, Slimani would, Okazaki is better than any of our strikers bar Lukaku, same for Austin and Long. Tadic would get in, so too Romeu, Ward Prowse, Ndidi.

This group of players at Everton is nowhere near as good as we used to think it is. If you offered our squad to the likes of Southampton and Leicester they'd be interested in Lukaku, Schneiderlin Coleman (crocked) Davies Gueye Barkley Bolasie (crocked). I honestly don't think they'd look at the rest. And that's two mid table sides who have finished below us not the top sides we hope to challenge. The squad is awful at present.

 

[ijjysmith]

Sometimes I look at Southanptons and Leicesters and I wonder if ours is the 7th best. We haven't got anyone close to a Mahrez or a Van Dijk, they've both got keepers who would walk into our side. Leicester have 2 left backs who could probably get in, Southampton one, we have an ageing Baines. Gray would get in, Vardy would, Slimani would, Okazaki is better than any of our strikers bar Lukaku, same for Austin and Long. Tadic would get in, so too Romeu, Ward Prowse, Ndidi.

This group of players at Everton is nowhere near as good as we used to think it is. If you offered our squad to the likes of Southampton and Leicester they'd be interested in Lukaku, Schneiderlin Coleman (crocked) Davies Gueye Barkley Bolasie (crocked). I honestly don't think they'd look at the rest. And that's two mid table sides who have finished below us not the top sides we hope to challenge. The squad is awful at present.

It is close. But for every Mahrez or Van Dijk they have a Daniel Amartey or a Florin Gardos.

 

[Saint Domingo]

It is close. But for every Mahrez or Van Dijk they have a Daniel Amartey or a Florin Gardos.

When I see Kone Valencia Barry Pennington playing for us, it shows how weak we are. These are not players who are anywhere near top 6 standard. We have a kid out of position at RB who can't cross, we have one left back who is getting on but is thankfully hardly ever injured as we don't have another one. We have 3 CBs none of which are good enough. The more you look at it the more you realise the squad is an utter shambles.

 

[Tommy Evans]

Fair enough.

No manager in the history of world football would have got this current crop of footballers any closer to CL football (no matter the points) than we did this year.

In my own opinion of course. We're the 7th best team on paper. And as it turned out, in reality too.

It's on the quality of player. And I really worry that we won't ever be able to bring in much better than we have.

That sounds like your implying Koeman is the best manager in world football?

 

[ijjysmith]

When I see Kone Valencia Barry Pennington playing for us, it shows how weak we are. These are not players who are anywhere near top 6 standard. We have a kid out of position at RB who can't cross, we have one left back who is getting on but is thankfully hardly ever injured as we don't have another one. We have 3 CBs none of which are good enough. The more you look at it the more you realise the squad is an utter shambles.

Oh I agree. We have some absolute woeful footballers. So does that mean we over performed this season and Koeman is that good? Because we were a long long way ahead of the next team.

 

[Saint Domingo]

Oh I agree. We have some absolute woeful footballers. So does that mean we over performed this season and Koeman is that good? Because we were a long long way ahead of the next team.

Like I said in another thread, I'm torn on this one. You look at the squad and you can't help but feel he's done well with that group and probably has overperformed. You then look at the cups, big games, poor runs, the away form, and it looks like a very average job. Next season will reveal all but hopefully we have a far far stronger squad. Kids like Davies should be the exciting player breaking through, not knackered by playing every game, Holgate should be 4th choice CB not starting RB. DCL should be 4th choice striker not starting RW. It's tough but that's the level we have to get to challenge the top sides.

 

[degsy]

75 points got you 5th this season.

Anyone sneering about 72 points need to get their heads around that fact.

61 points this season for us and that is just 4 points short of how far away from 4th spot we were in last season's piss poor campaign.

We are simply miles off.

In the last decade the closest we've come to a CL spot is 7 points off it. Our best season and we were still 2 wins and a draw off the last CL spot that season.

Pathetic for a club like this. The only way to bridge the gap is to spend massively and wisely. I have zero expectation of that.

Game, Set and Match to davek

 

[ijjysmith]

That sounds like your implying Koeman is the best manager in world football?

Well no obviously not. But I couldn't see a manager doing much better with these players.

(Apart from the Cups....obviously which were frankly an embarrassment)

 

[Llyrap]

The problem we have is that we need at least 4-5 players to cover Gk/def. All the other teams above us have a number of creative players whereas we don't really have one. If you wanted to properly overhaul the 1st team you're talking around 7-8 players and double digits if rom and Ross leave. We just don't have the money to do that properly and i's a massive risk both in success ratio of buying players and squad unity.

You can see why Rk wants an answer from Ross because he knows that we'll be lucky to get 3-4 of our top targets and he needs to prioritise. I can see us bringing 2-3 punts with low release clauses (Walsh type signings) and then we'll see with the rest.

 

[davek]

"Last game yesterday, not the best one but we will not put too much importance on it"

- Schneiderlin.


Says it all. That's been the attitude for about a month.

The professionalism at this club is pathetic.

 

[Titus Bramble]

"Last game yesterday, not the best one but we will not put too much importance on it"

- Schneiderlin.


Says it all. That's been the attitude for about a month.

The professionalism at this club is pathetic.

Would have thought you'd have a similar train of thought considering, in your words, the season has been over since January

 

[davek]

Would have thought you'd have a similar train of thought considering, in your words, the season has been over since January

I dont play for the club, the people getting a fortune to play for it are...apparently.

You cant be downplaying that BS statement from Schneiderlin?

It's a disgrace: "we got snotted by 10 men Arsenal...no bigee".

Amateur.