Bryan Oviedo

[Groucho]

If Baines was playing like Oviedo and Oviedo was playing like Baibes had been, we wouldn't even be discussing who should be starting. I'm one of Baines' biggest fans but form is form and Oviedo deserves to start as he's currently stronger defensively.

Play your in form players. It's sensible.

 

[davek]

Michael Ball in the Echo:

"Bryan Oviedo has got the shirt for now, but I have to admit I’m surprised to see Leighton Baines missing out. I look at the teamsheet, look at the left hand side and think ‘there’s something missing there."

Yeah, no gaping hole that Baines usually leaves.

Ball has talked nonsense in that Echo column since he started it. The pretence each week of wanting what's best for the team, when all he really wants here is to see another local inserted back into a back four - even though that local was one of the reasons we were so easy to get round in the first place.

Always a whinger as a player too.

 

[Abraders]

Michael Ball in the Echo:

"Bryan Oviedo has got the shirt for now, but I have to admit I’m surprised to see Leighton Baines missing out. I look at the teamsheet, look at the left hand side and think ‘there’s something missing there."

Yeah, no gaping hole that Baines usually leaves.

Ball has talked nonsense in that Echo column since he started it. The pretence each week of wanting what's best for the team, when all he really wants here is to see another local inserted back into a back four - even though that local was one of the reasons we were so easy to get round in the first place.

Always a whinger as a player too.

Baines has been a bit poor upon his return. Claim it for yourself oviedo lad.

 

[sageyefc]

The positions his on merit at the minute, been really good for several games now

 

[catcherintherye]

Michael Ball in the Echo:

"Bryan Oviedo has got the shirt for now, but I have to admit I’m surprised to see Leighton Baines missing out. I look at the teamsheet, look at the left hand side and think ‘there’s something missing there."

Yeah, no gaping hole that Baines usually leaves.

Ball has talked nonsense in that Echo column since he started it. The pretence each week of wanting what's best for the team, when all he really wants here is to see another local inserted back into a back four - even though that local was one of the reasons we were so easy to get round in the first place.

Always a whinger as a player too.

It was an odd article by Ball, I do miss Kendalls column to be honest. I have huge respect for Radcliffe and Ball but their insight is sometimes a bit lacking, especially compared to Kendall.

I disagree with the idea Baines was awful on his return. I thought he played quite well, particularly against Chelsea with his assists. However we have finally found a bit of balance in the team. 1 goal conceded in 5 games is a great achievement, and we haven't conceded in open play in that time. The improvements are huge from what we saw earlier in the season. In that context you don't try and fix what is broken.

Often in football you stumble upon a formula that works and a set of personal that play well together. All the time it works keep it going. Oviedo is a part of that. If he dropped Oviedo, Mori or Robles now for the more senior players he would lose a huge amount of respect. It will do none of them any harm sitting in the bench for a bit.

As for Oviedo I have always liked him. He is very good at preventing crosses into the box which is a major Achilles heel for us. He has a low centre of gravity and gets very close to the winger. In many ways he reminds me a little of how Hibbert used to play, when facing an attacking winger he would be good at nullifying them, while being a little better on the ball.

There is a wider context to the argument though. There is a layer of our fanbase who seem obsessed with us trying to recreate Kevin Keegans Newcastle. If it's not Oviedo it's Cleverley who should be dropped for Mirallas. Or if not Cleverley it should be Barry to accommodate Besic, or dropping McCarthy as well to get 2 strikers. It takes gung ho to new levels and would leave us wide open.

We saw this approach against Stoke/Bounremouth and Leicester this season. All fantastic games, with attacking flair. In the end though for me watching them gut wrenching. I didn't enjoy them one bit. It baffles me that people think the answer to our problems is to put in more attacking players. The annoying thing with all of it is, the elements of the fanbase who want the more attacking players in and want more attacking football are often the ones who are first to moan if we lose in a high scoring match.

I do understand where it comes from, the Smith and to a lesser degree Moyes era were not great fun to watch. I don't think Martinez has helped himself with some of his stuff about wanting to win 5-4 either. We can both attack and defend. We have enough attacking quality to win games and at present our fullbacks need to be defensively solid.

We're on a good run. We are defending well. I like the balance we have in the back 4 now. Mori attacks the ball very well and Robles is a good organiser, both of these were weaknesses of Jagielka which are being covered for, and he is focussing on his strengths.

 

[davek]

It was an odd article by Ball, I do miss Kendalls column to be honest. I have huge respect for Radcliffe and Ball but their insight is sometimes a bit lacking, especially compared to Kendall.

I disagree with the idea Baines was awful on his return. I thought he played quite well, particularly against Chelsea with his assists. However we have finally found a bit of balance in the team. 1 goal conceded in 5 games is a great achievement, and we haven't conceded in open play in that time. The improvements are huge from what we saw earlier in the season. In that context you don't try and fix what is broken.

Often in football you stumble upon a formula that works and a set of personal that play well together. All the time it works keep it going. Oviedo is a part of that. If he dropped Oviedo, Mori or Robles now for the more senior players he would lose a huge amount of respect. It will do none of them any harm sitting in the bench for a bit.

As for Oviedo I have always liked him. He is very good at preventing crosses into the box which is a major Achilles heel for us. He has a low centre of gravity and gets very close to the winger. In many ways he reminds me a little of how Hibbert used to play, when facing an attacking winger he would be good at nullifying them, while being a little better on the ball.

The thing that makes no sense about that Ball viewpoint is that he was a player that tackled well and defended solidly. I'd have thought that someone like Oviedo would have been more Ball's type of player. It underlines that he's just saying stuff for saying stuffs sake and probably looking to try and make the case for a mate to get back in the team over the claims of a foreign player he doesn't know. It's a pretty dishonest piece in that respect. As you say: we have a settled defence for now, so why on earth would anyone look at that and think a change was necessary? Ridiculous.

There is a wider context to the argument though. There is a layer of our fanbase who seem obsessed with us trying to recreate Kevin Keegans Newcastle. If it's not Oviedo it's Cleverley who should be dropped for Mirallas. Or if not Cleverley it should be Barry to accommodate Besic, or dropping McCarthy as well to get 2 strikers. It takes gung ho to new levels and would leave us wide open.

We saw this approach against Stoke/Bounremouth and Leicester this season. All fantastic games, with attacking flair. In the end though for me watching them gut wrenching. I didn't enjoy them one bit. It baffles me that people think the answer to our problems is to put in more attacking players. The annoying thing with all of it is, the elements of the fanbase who want the more attacking players in and want more attacking football are often the ones who are first to moan if we lose in a high scoring match.

I do understand where it comes from, the Smith and to a lesser degree Moyes era were not great fun to watch. I don't think Martinez has helped himself with some of his stuff about wanting to win 5-4 either. We can both attack and defend. We have enough attacking quality to win games and at present our fullbacks need to be defensively solid.

We're on a good run. We are defending well. I like the balance we have in the back 4 now. Mori attacks the ball very well and Robles is a good organiser, both of these were weaknesses of Jagielka which are being covered for, and he is focussing on his strengths.

Spot on that. Baines over Oviedo and Mirallas over anyone on the left: two calls for me that just highlight how off the pace someone is regarding what's best for this team. Nostalgia calls based on what went on in the past. Mirallas in particular is pure poison for this team. He'd be nowhere near the bench if it was me picking the team. He has to go in the summer. Let's hope he has a few appearances at Euro2016 and some other club put a £15M bid in for him.

 

[MikeH72]

I'm really happy to see Martinez picking players based on their form rather than "experience" like he was doing before

 

[Zatara]

It was an odd article by Ball, I do miss Kendalls column to be honest. I have huge respect for Radcliffe and Ball but their insight is sometimes a bit lacking, especially compared to Kendall.

I disagree with the idea Baines was awful on his return. I thought he played quite well, particularly against Chelsea with his assists. However we have finally found a bit of balance in the team. 1 goal conceded in 5 games is a great achievement, and we haven't conceded in open play in that time. The improvements are huge from what we saw earlier in the season. In that context you don't try and fix what is broken.

Often in football you stumble upon a formula that works and a set of personal that play well together. All the time it works keep it going. Oviedo is a part of that. If he dropped Oviedo, Mori or Robles now for the more senior players he would lose a huge amount of respect. It will do none of them any harm sitting in the bench for a bit.

As for Oviedo I have always liked him. He is very good at preventing crosses into the box which is a major Achilles heel for us. He has a low centre of gravity and gets very close to the winger. In many ways he reminds me a little of how Hibbert used to play, when facing an attacking winger he would be good at nullifying them, while being a little better on the ball.

There is a wider context to the argument though. There is a layer of our fanbase who seem obsessed with us trying to recreate Kevin Keegans Newcastle. If it's not Oviedo it's Cleverley who should be dropped for Mirallas. Or if not Cleverley it should be Barry to accommodate Besic, or dropping McCarthy as well to get 2 strikers. It takes gung ho to new levels and would leave us wide open.

We saw this approach against Stoke/Bounremouth and Leicester this season. All fantastic games, with attacking flair. In the end though for me watching them gut wrenching. I didn't enjoy them one bit. It baffles me that people think the answer to our problems is to put in more attacking players. The annoying thing with all of it is, the elements of the fanbase who want the more attacking players in and want more attacking football are often the ones who are first to moan if we lose in a high scoring match.

I do understand where it comes from, the Smith and to a lesser degree Moyes era were not great fun to watch. I don't think Martinez has helped himself with some of his stuff about wanting to win 5-4 either. We can both attack and defend. We have enough attacking quality to win games and at present our fullbacks need to be defensively solid.

We're on a good run. We are defending well. I like the balance we have in the back 4 now. Mori attacks the ball very well and Robles is a good organiser, both of these were weaknesses of Jagielka which are being covered for, and he is focussing on his strengths.

Thats a very good post.

i think @davek also highlighted that we looked more solid with Galloway/Browning at the start of the season. Of course it all depends on the overall team.

Gk -- Clearly Robles looks world class compared to Howard so its taking some getting used to and not sure how good he actually is/could be for us.

CB -- Mori looks very good indeed though we dont know about stones/jags yet as it could be thst howard affected stones form.

CM --,I think whilst Barry is solid we need energy next to him which means McCarthy out of position. Id like to see McCarthy and Besic there. See how we look.

FB -- Baines,Oviedo,Garbutt,Galloway can all play there. I guess its good to have an attacking option and a defensive option depending on the game. Galloway is a future centre back of course but still 3 into 1 doesnt fit so i wonder what will happen here as Baines will want to be first choice and Garbutt wont get games.

The LB positon is quite interesting. Could Oviedo come back from the major injuries hes had and take the position away from local crowd favourite baines?

Where does thst leave Baines?

 

[Zatara]

The thing that makes no sense about that Ball viewpoint is that he was a player that tackled well and defended solidly. I'd have thought that someone like Oviedo would have been more Ball's type of player. It underlines that he's just saying stuff for saying stuffs sake and probably looking to try and make the case for a mate to get back in the team over the claims of a foreign player he doesn't know. It's a pretty dishonest piece in that respect. As you say: we have a settled defence for now, so why on earth would anyone look at that and think a change was necessary? Ridiculous.


Spot on that. Baines over Oviedo and Mirallas over anyone on the left: two calls for me that just highlight how off the pace someone is regarding what's best for this team. Nostalgia calls based on what went on in the past. Mirallas in particular is pure poison for this team. He'd be nowhere near the bench if it was me picking the team. He has to go in the summer. Let's hope he has a few appearances at Euro2016 and some other club put a £15M bid in for him.

Regarding Baines/Oviedo i'm keen to see what happens to Baines if Oviedo keeps his place. Will he be with England if hes not playing and will he stay at the club?

Following that, whose best in front on the left would depend on the full back. Signing Niasse it seems for the Kone attacking left sided forward role means we need a more defensive full back id imagine which would be Oviedo.

 

[davek]

Regarding Baines/Oviedo i'm keen to see what happens to Baines if Oviedo keeps his place. Will he be with England if hes not playing and will he stay at the club?

Following that, whose best in front on the left would depend on the full back. Signing Niasse it seems for the Kone attacking left sided forward role means we need a more defensive full back id imagine which would be Oviedo.

Some people view Baines as a no brainer starter at LB. Well he's way short of that status these days. I dont think it's down to regaining fitness either. It's partly that he doesn't fit into a back four that has, of necessity, to be a little less adventurous if we as a team produce our best results with the front three plus Barkley (and dragging McCarthy further forward) getting forward as a bloc when we counter. We need security, and a player like Oviedo keeps shape better than Baines - who historically is not a good defender. It's also (for me) partly that he's maybe peaked as a player and is on a downslide.

 

[Zatara]

Some people view Baines as a no brainer starter at LB. Well he's way short of that status these days. I dont think it's down to regaining fitness either. It's partly that he doesn't fit into a back four that has, of necessity, to be a little less adventurous if we as a team produce our best results with the front three plus Barkley (and dragging McCarthy further forward) getting forward as a bloc when we counter. We need security, and a player like Oviedo keeps shape better than Baines - who historically is not a good defender. It's also (for me) partly that he's maybe peaked as a player and is on a downslide.

Lets say Oviedo keeps his place till summer...

Does Baines get in the England squad? Does he want to leave?

Then also what happens to Garbutt and Galloway?

 

[davek]

Lets say Oviedo keeps his place till summer...

Does Baines get in the England squad? Does he want to leave?

Then also what happens to Garbutt and Galloway?

I cant see Baines leaving now, tbh. England call up or not. I'm not sure he'd fetch much in the transfer market either. He has another two years on his contract. He'll probably see it out.

 

[Joey66]

I cant see Baines leaving now, tbh. England call up or not. I'm not sure he'd fetch much in the transfer market either. He has another two years on his contract. He'll probably see it out.

I agree with you there, I think he will stay - on his return on that ankle can't remember , but someone gave him an hospital pass maybe Osman not sure or which ankle got hit , but he has struggled since maybe he is recuperating on the bench?

 

[BlueToff]

I cant see Baines leaving now, tbh. England call up or not. I'm not sure he'd fetch much in the transfer market either. He has another two years on his contract. He'll probably see it out.

Wouldn't want him to either.

On his day still one of the best in the league (Chelsea at the Bridge a few weeks back is a fine example of that), but at the same time there's no urgent need to shoehorn him back into the side for the sake of it.

Oviedo is playing well and deserves his place. The good thing about Baines is I for one do feel he has the experience and ability to be able to become a bit more of a utility player for us.

I genuinely wouldn't mind seeing him in a midfield three (probably alongside Barry and Besic) in a game towards the end of the season (obviously depending what's at stake)/pre-season.

Definitely has the ability to play there.

 

[davek]

I agree with you there, I think he will stay - on his return on that ankle can't remember , but someone gave him an hospital pass maybe Osman not sure or which ankle got hit , but he has struggled since maybe he is recuperating on the bench?

He cant force his way in at the moment. Injury or no injury.