British Imperialism

[Billy Dean]

You want me to be proud of something that was bad? No

I acknowledge it was bad and would like us to do something to correct it

Deffo. I think it would do our society good to highlight the atrocities more and offer some kind of apology. I think it might help reducing levels of exceptionalism that contribute to things like Brexit. Saying it was of its time or that other empires were worse is not really helpful IMO

 

[The Legend of Southall]

You want me to be proud of something that was bad? No

I acknowledge it was bad and would like us to do something to correct it

Would you expect Italy to correct the bad they did with the Roman Empire?

And I'm not expecting anyone to be proud of something bad. You've misunderstood what I've said.

 

[The Legend of Southall]

Deffo. I think it would do our society good to highlight the atrocities more and offer some kind of apology. I think it might help reducing levels of exceptionalism that contribute to things like Brexit. Saying it was of its time or that other empires were worse is not really helpful IMO

Good idea, but I think that would be political suicide. You also have to be careful when judging the morals of the past by today's standards. Murder, rape, and theft have always been abhorrent, yet there hasn't been a single age where they haven't happened. All that's changed is societies attitudes to the crimes and those who commit them. I would say that the fact that we currently see what we did as an empire as bad, is progress. I also wonder whether that played a part in its eventual collapse?

We should of used the Commonwealth as a place for our former colonies to get genuine help and support. We should of done better with places like Israel and Iraq, where we essentially forced 2 or more different cultures into one country. Or with Ireland, where separating it into 2 countries has caused chaos for generations.

We've had ample opportunities along the way to get things right, and have consistently failed. Attempting to apologise now wouldn't change a thing, and we no longer have the resources or political clout to help in the ways our former colonies actually need.

Here's an interesting question. We're all getting hot under the collar about what the British Empire did hundreds of years ago, and believe it's current incarnation should apologise. Should all the counties that made up The Allies of the Second World War, apologise to Germany for what happened to Dresden? We currently define any avoidable civilian deaths as a war crime, so was one committed?

(My apologies, I think I've been playing devils advocate a bit too much this afternoon. But it is food for thought, no?)

 

[Sarnia Kevin]

I wonder what the outcome would have been if Ireland hadn't been partitioned in 1922. Would the violence have been worse and increased emigration, or would the separate communities have found themselves forced into an accomodation? We will never know.

 

[Shevin Keedy]

The Bauhaus has been the single most influential movement in modern living in my humble opinion.

The German art movement?

In terms of technological and cultural advancement, good.

How does one "advance" a culture?

 

[Tubey]

How does one "advance" a culture?

There's loads of ways. World War 2 wasn't exactly a good thing, but the technological advances were astonishing as a result, as was the resultant social reforms which basically gave birth to modern life and freedoms we have today. The Romans dominated the ancient world and were ruthless, yet brought about a ridiculous amount of cultural norms in the countries they occupied that basically pressed the fast forward button on how civilisation worked.

Sometimes a lot of good comes out of something bad.

 

[The Legend of Southall]

I wonder what the outcome would have been if Ireland hadn't been partitioned in 1922. Would the violence have been worse and increased emigration, or would the separate communities have found themselves forced into an accomodation? We will never know.

I think a solution along the lines of devo max like Scotland could of been implemented. On the provision that a referendum be held on Irish independence as soon as it was stable enough.

It's difficult to separate the wood from the trees. Were Protestant and Catholic communities violent to each purely on religious grounds? How much influence did the political situation lend to the troubles? Obviously Britain could of helped eased those tensions by acting better than it did.

It's almost certain that the Papacy and other Cathloic states would of used Ireland as spring board for trouble, much like the French used to with Scotland. But that would of been early on. I'd be interested to find out how big a role the US played during the latter years. Thier reasons certainly wouldn't have been religious either.

You know, I've just realised something, ever since Henry VIII broke from the Papacy and Catholicism, England has always been on the outskirts of European affairs. Kind of goes a little way to explaining English exceptionalism and Brexit, doesn't it?

 

[the sniderman]

the greatest thing about this thread is the poll being public so we can now click and find out all the tories and CRUSH them like a cockroach out of our society buddies.

 

[JimmyJeffers]

the greatest thing about this thread is the poll being public so we can now click and find out all the tories and CRUSH them like a cockroach out of our society buddies.

It’s a rogues gallery in there mate. All the usual suspects @MarcelsGoat and @Diogenes the Cynic are very BAD men!

 

[the sniderman]

It’s a rogues gallery in there mate. All the usual suspects @MarcelsGoat and @Diogenes the Cynic are very BAD men!

then goat must be CRUSHED. we may need something v v heavy to achieve this buddy.

 

[Sarnia Kevin]

You know, I've just realised something, ever since Henry VIII broke from the Papacy and Catholicism, England has always been on the outskirts of European affairs. Kind of goes a little way to explaining English exceptionalism and Brexit, doesn't it?

It's all Henry VIII fault then. One bad boy lollol

 

[JimmyJeffers]

then goat must be CRUSHED. we may need something v v heavy to achieve this buddy.

Hmmmm...

 

[Shevin Keedy]

There's loads of ways. World War 2 wasn't exactly a good thing, but the technological advances were astonishing as a result, as was the resultant social reforms which basically gave birth to modern life and freedoms we have today. The Romans dominated the ancient world and were ruthless, yet brought about a ridiculous amount of cultural norms in the countries they occupied that basically pressed the fast forward button on how civilisation worked.

Sometimes a lot of good comes out of something bad.

Cultural not technical, specifically cultural is what I was asking about. I see no other reason for one particular culture to change another culture other than assimilation.

 

[Tubey]

Cultural not technical, specifically cultural is what I was asking about. I see no other reason for one particular culture to change another culture other than assimilation.

They're one and the same in many ways - technological advancement drives culture.

As for your second paragraph, that's fine - now. But we're talking about near around 150-200 years ago here.

If we're asking "was British imperialism wrong by the standards of 2020", of course it bloody was.

 

[Shevin Keedy]

They're one and the same in many ways - technological advancement drives culture.

As for your second paragraph, that's fine - now. But we're talking about near around 150-200 years ago here.

If we're asking "was British imperialism wrong by the standards of 2020", of course it bloody was.

It is ok, I understand how you have confused yourself.