Bolton Vs Everton 25th Oct 1:30pm KO

[Goat]

*snigger*

 

[GhostOfDixie]

To be fair, everyone is entitled to an opinion.

And I think they are taking the things you mention into account, they just can't get there heads around it. What that says about them I don't know, lacking a few brain cells maybe?

So Moyes is thick as two short planks too?

Ok, fair enough.

 

[TX Bill]

Well my friend I don't believe that once the team has been selected, and the manager has sent out his instructions that we can use injuries as an excuse for players making mistakes.

You can't blame Jagielka being injured for someone failing to clear the ball properly.

The errors are schoolboy errors so anybody in the first team squad who make them are just as accountable for anyone else, therefore injuries are not an excuse for poor performances via defensive errors.

Apart from Benfica, the quality of opposition has not exactly been stellar has it?

Fulham, Pompey, Stoke, Wolves. These are teams we need to beat, and if we don't then were not going to get back in Europe next season, were not going to attract the quality we need, and certain players may leave.

So those who are on the pitch need to step it up a notch. Moyes knows this and so does Distin, and I'm sure the rest do, but they don't seem to be learning from these mistakes.

You don't give enough credit to Wolves (tied Villa this weekend) and Stoke (beat Spurs). That's another issue for another thread entirely but yes, quality of opposition makes a difference.

I haven't said at any point that the players aren't to blame for the mistakes they've made. I've never said that. What I've said is that people are blowing up about our season so far based solely what's happening on the pitch and not looking at the entire picture.

 

[Brownie]

We need Pienaar and Arteta back. Anyone else is a bonus really. I can see what your saying though.

Looks like Yak's picked up an injury, hopefully it's not serious.

We have never ever played proper football with good players apart from that period when Mikel was first playing in the middle and we were crushing everyone. What I mean is, until he's back in the side we're going to have to play the basic passing game that we have done the majority of the time under Moyes. Having the Yak on his own up front is a big part of that, it gives a more natural 4-5-1 shape.

 

[GhostOfDixie]

You don't give enough credit to Wolves (tied Villa this weekend) and Stoke (beat Spurs). That's another issue for another thread entirely but yes, quality of opposition makes a difference.

I haven't said at any point that the players aren't to blame for the mistakes they've made. I've never said that. What I've said is that people are blowing up about our season so far based solely what's happening on the pitch and not looking at the entire picture.

Well I'm not. I know the entire picture. But it's made up of small pieces, and part of those small pieces are beating teams who are inferior to us.

Even with our injuries we still are able to put players out there who are better than Stoke, Wolves and Bolton. I don't really care what they did against other teams, that's a different dynamic altogether.

What I'm saying is that none of our players should be making mistakes, none of them. And they are, and they made them last season when we had no injuries, so then you can't blame it on injuries.

 

[ToxtethBlue]

So Moyes is thick as two short planks too?

Ok, fair enough.

No, not at all.

"The injuries are beginning to drag me down. It is just beginning to weigh on us.

 

[GhostOfDixie]

No, not at all.

"The injuries are beginning to drag me down. It is just beginning to weigh on us.

What about Distin then?

 

[TX Bill]

Well I'm not. I know the entire picture. But it's made up of small pieces, and part of those small pieces are beating teams who are inferior to us.

Even with our injuries we still are able to put players out there who are better than Stoke, Wolves and Bolton. I don't really care what they did against other teams, that's a different dynamic altogether.

What I'm saying is that none of our players should be making mistakes, none of them. And they are, and they made them last season when we had no injuries, so then you can't blame it on injuries.

All players make mistakes.

I just so happens that:

1) We're making more than usual for Everton and

2) We're being punished for them more than usual.

 

[GhostOfDixie]

All players make mistakes.

I just so happens that:

1) We're making more than usual for Everton and

2) We're being punished for them more than usual.

Right, but that's got nothing to do with injuries has it?

Recently mistakes have occurred by Fellaini making a mistake or two, Yobo and Distin against Wolves, Stoke game, poor marking. These are not down to injuries.

Ok, we have an issue at full back with Coleman having to play 1 and half games, but that's his natural position, and he's 21, he's not a kid 0 he shouldn't be making those mistakes, its not experience, it's errors of judgement.

Lucas Neill today failed to clear the ball when he had the chance and they got the winner. Cahill and Distin failed to make enough of an effort to clear the ball away, and we were punished, last season that ball would have been defended more comprehensively.

 

[ToxtethBlue]

What about Distin then?

He's entitled to his opinion, but he did also say in the interview on Evertontv that the injuries are making it hard.

As did Tony Hibbert.

 

[GhostOfDixie]

He's entitled to his opinion, but he did also say in the interview on Evertontv that the injuries are making it hard.

As did Tony Hibbert.

Which is what I have said, but it only makes it hard for team selection.

Moyes has backed this up by stating once they cross the line it's up to them.

I don't take kindly from being called stupid - just because I don't agree with someone's opinion.

 

[ToxtethBlue]

We have never ever played proper football with good players apart from that period when Mikel was first playing in the middle and we were crushing everyone. What I mean is, until he's back in the side we're going to have to play the basic passing game that we have done the majority of the time under Moyes. Having the Yak on his own up front is a big part of that, it gives a more natural 4-5-1 shape.

I'm not saying we haven't and I agree that our football will never be up to that standard that we had when Arteta was pulling the strings but we can certainly play some decent football with the likes of Pienaar, Rodwell and Bilyaletdinov in the side.

Yakubu gets involved in open play more than Saha, that's why he's more suited to the role upfront on his own. And his natural game is back to goal, Saha likes to turn and run and that isn't always effective.

We really can't afford to take Saha out the team at the moment though, he just offers us too much. In terms of aerial ability and individual bits of quality.

I still think, at home especially, we'd be able to play them both. Especially when Bilya and Pienaar are available. There both power lads and good with the ball at there feet.

 

[TX Bill]

Right, but that's got nothing to do with injuries has it?

Recently mistakes have occurred by Fellaini making a mistake or two, Yobo and Distin against Wolves, Stoke game, poor marking. These are not down to injuries.

Ok, we have an issue at full back with Coleman having to play 1 and half games, but that's his natural position, and he's 21, he's not a kid 0 he shouldn't be making those mistakes, its not experience, it's errors of judgement.

Lucas Neill today failed to clear the ball when he had the chance and they got the winner. Cahill and Distin failed to make enough of an effort to clear the ball away, and we were punished, last season that ball would have been defended more comprehensively.

Nothing directly but Toxteth said it best that when we have a better quality group of players on the pitch (those injured) then we have players with a bit better skill and techinical ability to not be making those mistakes.

So directly, no impact. Indirectly, very big impact.

 

[ToxtethBlue]

Which is what I have said, but it only makes it hard for team selection.

Moyes has backed this up by stating once they cross the line it's up to them.

I don't take kindly from being called stupid - just because I don't agree with someone's opinion.

Balance, team shape, team selection, confidence, player partnerships.

It makes it hard in alot of areas which can lead to individual mistakes and errors. I'm not saying that's always the case but it can happen and it does happen.

I didn't call you stupid, I just put forward that possibly, those who disagree with TX Bill might be lacking a little bit upstairs. Whether that's true or not is up for debate, I'll let Bill ponder over that.

 

[GhostOfDixie]

Nothing directly but Toxteth said it best that when we have a better quality group of players on the pitch (those injured) then we have players with a bit better skill and techinical ability to not be making those mistakes.

So directly, no impact. Indirectly, very big impact.

But we finished 4th with a side which I thought was very average, and a side that people felt we would be relegated with. So personnel is not always an issue, and we have put in poor performances with Arteta in the side, in fact he hadn;t been putting in that good performances before he got injured, his set pieces were dreadful.

I'm fairly sure Moyes isn't bemoaning his luck on the training ground, he is doing what he can with the players he had, but he's not going to accept mistakes, and he has said so today.

That is what I can't understand, people's acceptance on mistakes because we have injuries.