Current Affairs Aussie referendum

[longers]

Australia rejects proposal to recognise Aboriginal people in constitution

Voice to parliament referendum fails in defeat that Indigenous advocates will see as a blow to progress towards reconciliation

www.theguardian.com

Seems a bit grim ? Interested to know what the arguements against this were as the no vote seems to have won by a landslide !

 

[BNJ1878]

Australia rejects proposal to recognise Aboriginal people in constitution

Voice to parliament referendum fails in defeat that Indigenous advocates will see as a blow to progress towards reconciliation

www.theguardian.com

Seems a bit grim ? Interested to know what the arguements against this were as the no vote seems to have won by a landslide !

As my semi joking poll in the ale house implies.

They're clearly a nation of bigoted racists.

 

[Bishop Thumpety-Thump]

People got played by the Murdoch media (just like with Brexit in the UK). It's utterly depressing. The No campaign was fuelled by misinformation and outright lies. Similar to the idiot(s) on here who think(s) the EU want to form their own army, the amount of nonsense I've heard people spout about the Voice was ridiculous.

In my electorate (two hours drive east of Melbourne) it was almost 75% voting no. In the last general election over 10% of the same electorate voted for One Nation (a cross between UKIP and the BNP). This is an overwhelmingly working class/blue collar region, with most income derived from brown coal power plants or the local paper mill.

And Peter Dutton, the Mr Potato Headed nobjockey, can eff right off. Me and the missus are talking about moving back to the city to get away from all the shoeless bogans around here.

 

[dublinbluenose]

How many shells have Russia left?



The reports from the last few days are that Russia artillery is inaccurate, probably from porr quality NK shells

 

[Hinchcliffe's Corner]

How many shells have Russia left?



The reports from the last few days are that Russia artillery is inaccurate, probably from porr quality NK shells

You want the Ukranians to target the racist Aussies?

 

[Leylo]

Bit like the north and south of england.

 

[degsy]

Exclude the inner (some might say 'well off' white, green and/or left leaning voters but I couldn't comment on that) city voting.

'Drill into' the results, in the NT, West and North Qld, NSW & SA, the big outback Electorates where many of the 'deprived' indigenous people actually live and see 60,70+% No votes.

Check population % (3.5%) to actual indigenous MPs%. (11 out of 151).

Ask where much of the $30 BILLION, each year, every year...much funnelled through 'local /grassroots' Quangos actually goes...nobody in Canberra knows, nor dares to ask.

This voice was to be an appointed body...who by? was asked

Oh don't fret about those sort of details, just trust us to sort it out after...

Anyway, It will only deal with 'things that indigenous people think will affect them'
While skating over the obvious fact that 'everything' affects 'everybody' in some way.
It was a vague ill thought through, wishy washy piece of feel good legislation. Rushed in on day one by a newly elected PM looking for a Legacy.

 

[Bishop Thumpety-Thump]

View attachment 231457
Exclude the inner (some might say 'well off' white, green and/or left leaning voters but I couldn't comment on that) city voting.

'Drill into' the results, in the NT, West and North Qld, NSW & SA, the big outback Electorates where many of the 'deprived' indigenous people actually live and see 60,70+% No votes.

Check population % (3.5%) to actual indigenous MPs%. (11 out of 151).

Ask where much of the $30 BILLION, each year, every year...much funnelled through 'local /grassroots' Quangos actually goes...nobody in Canberra knows, nor dares to ask.

This voice was to be an appointed body...who by? was asked

Oh don't fret about those sort of details, just trust us to sort it out after...

Anyway, It will only deal with 'things that indigenous people think will affect them'
While skating over the obvious fact that 'everything' affects 'everybody' in some way.
It was a vague ill thought through, wishy washy piece of feel good legislation. Rushed in on day one by a newly elected PM looking for a Legacy.

The $30 billion per year on Indigenous people quote is from Warren Mundine I think? It doesn’t quite tell the whole truth though. Here’s some important detail about that figure;

‘However, only a small proportion of the overall Indigenous expenditure is on Indigenous-specific programs. The rest comprises the cost of providing mainstream services, such as schooling and health care, that all Australians enjoy.’

The entire article is here and is well worth a read;

FactCheck Q&A: is $30 billion spent every year on 500,000 Indigenous people in Australia?

Chair of the Prime Minister’s Indigenous Advisory Council, Warren Mundine, told Q&A that $30 billion is spent every year on 500,000 Indigenous people in Australia. Is that right?

theconversation.com

No wish to get into an argument with you Degsy, I’m sure you’ve made an informed decision. Just breaks my heart that indigenous people live in such poverty with such understandable anger. I personally think we need to try something different and the Voice would have been a good start.

 

[WA Toffee]

View attachment 231457
Exclude the inner (some might say 'well off' white, green and/or left leaning voters but I couldn't comment on that) city voting.

'Drill into' the results, in the NT, West and North Qld, NSW & SA, the big outback Electorates where many of the 'deprived' indigenous people actually live and see 60,70+% No votes.

Check population % (3.5%) to actual indigenous MPs%. (11 out of 151).

Ask where much of the $30 BILLION, each year, every year...much funnelled through 'local /grassroots' Quangos actually goes...nobody in Canberra knows, nor dares to ask.

This voice was to be an appointed body...who by? was asked

Oh don't fret about those sort of details, just trust us to sort it out after...

Anyway, It will only deal with 'things that indigenous people think will affect them'
While skating over the obvious fact that 'everything' affects 'everybody' in some way.
It was a vague ill thought through, wishy washy piece of feel good legislation. Rushed in on day one by a newly elected PM looking for a Legacy.

As you have just demonstrated, the No campaign were campaigning on imagined legislation rather than constitutional change, which the referendum was actually about.

The referendum itself was about adding 3 sentences to the constitution, which basically acknowledged aboriginal people as the first people here and gives them a permanent voice to government. Not any power to make or reject any legislation, just forces the government to say "What do you reckon?"

However, the No campaign starting banging on about legislation, both federal and state (and even making claims about how Aboriginal people will now decide who gets parking tickets ). They then started banging on about demanding to know who the members will be, who picks them etc - that is all legislation to be decided by the govt of the day, but a lot of people were too stupid or ignorant to understand the difference.

Basically, the No campaign was just a fear campaign, championed by the leader of the opposition, summed up by their favourite catchphrase - "If you don't know, vote no". Not try and find out. Not here are some facts. Just - stay dumb and be scared

 

[degsy]

The $30 billion per year on Indigenous people quote is from Warren Mundine I think? It doesn’t quite tell the whole truth though. Here’s some important detail about that figure;

‘However, only a small proportion of the overall Indigenous expenditure is on Indigenous-specific programs. The rest comprises the cost of providing mainstream services, such as schooling and health care, that all Australians enjoy.’

The entire article is here and is well worth a read;

FactCheck Q&A: is $30 billion spent every year on 500,000 Indigenous people in Australia?

Chair of the Prime Minister’s Indigenous Advisory Council, Warren Mundine, told Q&A that $30 billion is spent every year on 500,000 Indigenous people in Australia. Is that right?

theconversation.com

Ta mate.

No wish to get into an argument with you Degsy, I’m sure you’ve made an informed decision. Just breaks my heart that indigenous people live in such poverty with such understandable anger. I personally think we need to try something different and the Voice would have been a good start.

It does me too.
All...past and present...Indigenous administration boards are obviously unfit for purpose as is the whole methodology along with many of the people involved.

 

[degsy]

As you have just demonstrated, the No campaign were campaigning on imagined legislation rather than constitutional change, which the referendum was actually about.

The referendum itself was about adding 3 sentences to the constitution, which basically acknowledged aboriginal people as the first people here and gives them a permanent voice to government. Not any power to make or reject any legislation, just forces the government to say "What do you reckon?"

However, the No campaign starting banging on about legislation, both federal and state (and even making claims about how Aboriginal people will now decide who gets parking tickets ). They then started banging on about demanding to know who the members will be, who picks them etc - that is all legislation to be decided by the govt of the day, but a lot of people were too stupid or ignorant to understand the difference.

Basically, the No campaign was just a fear campaign, championed by the leader of the opposition, summed up by their favourite catchphrase - "If you don't know, vote no". Not try and find out. Not here are some facts. Just - stay dumb and be scared

As ever, it's all about opinions, we can agree to differ and vote as we see it.

Maybe if the Yes vote was presented better, more would've voted for it - democracy in action.

 

[WA Toffee]

It does me too.
All...past and present...Indigenous administration boards are obviously unfit for purpose as is the whole methodology along with many of the people ininvolved.

It's true that most of the Aboriginal boards and committees have failed to bring positive change for their people. I think it's also true that most of those boards and committees were put together by politicians with no real input from Aboriginal people. Is it any wonder they are not effective?

A yes vote would have made the government actually ask the Aboriginal people what kind of board or committee would be fit for purpose for them. Maybe they actually have a better idea of what they need, rather than politicians telling them?

 

[WA Toffee]

As ever, it's all about opinions, we can agree to differ and vote as we see it.

Maybe if the Yes vote was presented better, more would've voted for it - democracy in action.

I agree, I think it was a very poor campaign by the Yes team. Dutton led the conversation from day 1, and the Yes team just weren't able to steer it back in their favour.

But now that Dutton knows lies and fear will triumph over positivity, I dread to think what the next election campaign will bring

 

[degsy]

It's true that most of the Aboriginal boards and committees have failed to bring positive change for their people. I think it's also true that most of those boards and committees were put together by politicians with no real input from Aboriginal people. Is it any wonder they are not effective?

A yes vote would have made the government actually ask the Aboriginal people what kind of board or committee would be fit for purpose for them. Maybe they actually have a better idea of what they need, rather than politicians telling them?

I went with 'Unsure' on your last bit, I was also unsure due to yes vote lack of detail added to that the total Irreversibly of fixing vague legislation...open to who knows what sort of future interpretation - By the High Court not Parliament - forever in the constitution.

 

[Baines' left foot]

People got played by the Murdoch media (just like with Brexit in the UK). It's utterly depressing. The No campaign was fuelled by misinformation and outright lies. Similar to the idiot(s) on here who think(s) the EU want to form their own army, the amount of nonsense I've heard people spout about the Voice was ridiculous.

In my electorate (two hours drive east of Melbourne) it was almost 75% voting no. In the last general election over 10% of the same electorate voted for One Nation (a cross between UKIP and the BNP). This is an overwhelmingly working class/blue collar region, with most income derived from brown coal power plants or the local paper mill.

And Peter Dutton, the Mr Potato Headed nobjockey, can eff right off. Me and the missus are talking about moving back to the city to get away from all the shoeless bogans around here.

It's funny you say that. Since moving back home in Wirral after living in London for 7 years I was shocked at how casually racist and ignorant people are here. I would rather set myself on fire than move back to London, but it definitely has some major advantages.