Current Affairs Asylum Seekers

[edge]

How does that work out, that's a city bigger than Liverpool every two years worth of people.
That's roads, hospitals water,schools, dentists everything else.
Is that taken into the figures,
That's like driving from halewood to bootle and everything last thing you see has to be bought brand new?
Mind-boggling when you think of it.

 

[Bruce Wayne]

How does that work out, that's a city bigger than Liverpool every two years worth of people.
That's roads, hospitals water,schools, dentists everything else.
Is that taken into the figures,
That's like driving from halewood to bootle and everything last thing you see has to be bought brand new?
Mind-boggling when you think of it.

I don't really get your analogy, but it's basically a talent thing, as in the more of it you have, the wealthier a region or country is.

Economies of agglomeration - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

Regarding GDP. No, that is purely a measure of what is produced. As has been explained previously in this thread though, nearly all evidence around migration says that migrants generate more in taxes than they consume in resources, so it's up to the government to ensure that additional revenue is spent to ensure roads and hospitals are provided. It's perhaps worth remembering that around 6-700,000 babies are born in the UK each year (who, suffice it to say, are not productive for a bit), yet we don't ever hear complaints about 3x Liverpool worth of burden on the public infrastructure.

 

[Bruce Wayne]

If you're from Uganda and LGBT, you could come to the UK to claim asylum and be criminalised because of how you arrived then deported to a country which borders Uganda.

Yeah, about that

 

[Rita_Poon]

I don't really get your analogy, but it's basically a talent thing, as in the more of it you have, the wealthier a region or country is.

Economies of agglomeration - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

Regarding GDP. No, that is purely a measure of what is produced. As has been explained previously in this thread though, nearly all evidence around migration says that migrants generate more in taxes than they consume in resources, so it's up to the government to ensure that additional revenue is spent to ensure roads and hospitals are provided. It's perhaps worth remembering that around 6-700,000 babies are born in the UK each year (who, suffice it to say, are not productive for a bit), yet we don't ever hear complaints about 3x Liverpool worth of burden on the public infrastructure.

Send the babies back*? or to rwanda?

 

[Bruce Wayne]

Send the babies back*? or to rwanda?

It's the only rational solution.

 

[edge]

I don't really get your analogy, but it's basically a talent thing, as in the more of it you have, the wealthier a region or country is.

Economies of agglomeration - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

Regarding GDP. No, that is purely a measure of what is produced. As has been explained previously in this thread though, nearly all evidence around migration says that migrants generate more in taxes than they consume in resources, so it's up to the government to ensure that additional revenue is spent to ensure roads and hospitals are provided. It's perhaps worth remembering that around 6-700,000 babies are born in the UK each year (who, suffice it to say, are not productive for a bit), yet we don't ever hear complaints about 3x Liverpool worth of burden on the public infrastructure.

I was pointing out if the live here there obviously need the same things as we do to live it's not all about profits for business.
Those numbers you have given mean we need to build a city like Liverpool and everything that entails to look after the increase in population, so is that cost taken into the equation?
I have no problem with people coming to fill caps in the economy by the way as long as we also invest in the young people that already here , seems to be a little bare on that score over that last few decades.

 

[Bruce Wayne]

I was pointing out if the live here there obviously need the same things as we do to live it's not all about profits for business.
Those numbers you have given mean we need to build a city like Liverpool and everything that entails to look after the increase in population, so is that cost taken into the equation?
I have no problem with people coming to fill caps in the economy by the way as long as we also invest in the young people that already here , seems to be a little bare on that score over that last few decades.

It's not quite as straightforward as the raw number suggests, for a number of reasons. Firstly, in 2020 we saw more people dying than being born, which with 1.56 births per woman is a trend that is likely to continue. We can already see in countries like Italy, Japan, South Korea, and Russia a decline in population due to the fall in birth rate. We're on a similar path, albeit at a slower rate than those countries.

This is problematic, especially when countries fail to reform their retirement system so they have an ever growing number of people spending a long time in retirement, all with fewer people of working age to pay for those things you mention.

We also have to think of where immigrants tend to go when they come here. 35% of all foreign-born people in the entire UK live in London, and this influx of people has been a major contributory factor to the reversal in the population of the city, which had fallen by about 2 million people between the 60s and 90s, but has now recovered to over 9.5 million people. This number helps to tap into the agglomeration effect I mentioned before. Outside of London, the majority of immigrants are students so will go to university towns, which again tend to have the infrastructure to support them as overseas students are the financial lifeblood of our academic system.

 

[edge]

It's not quite as straightforward as the raw number suggests, for a number of reasons. Firstly, in 2020 we saw more people dying than being born, which with 1.56 births per woman is a trend that is likely to continue. We can already see in countries like Italy, Japan, South Korea, and Russia a decline in population due to the fall in birth rate. We're on a similar path, albeit at a slower rate than those countries.

This is problematic, especially when countries fail to reform their retirement system so they have an ever growing number of people spending a long time in retirement, all with fewer people of working age to pay for those things you mention.

We also have to think of where immigrants tend to go when they come here. 35% of all foreign-born people in the entire UK live in London, and this influx of people has been a major contributory factor to the reversal in the population of the city, which had fallen by about 2 million people between the 60s and 90s, but has now recovered to over 9.5 million people. This number helps to tap into the agglomeration effect I mentioned before. Outside of London, the majority of immigrants are students so will go to university towns, which again tend to have the infrastructure to support them as overseas students are the financial lifeblood of our academic system.

The retirement problem is not going away, the number if people I know who are jubbing work lately is mad really.
After 40 odd years of working they are not going to work for buttons as they have the means to either stop altogether or go part time.
Maybe it time to link the pension to what you have actually put in
Number of years in work = x amount of pension.
By the time I finish I will have worked 50 years solid , but only get 35 towards get my full pension.
Can't see me going to the end, if we get redundancy , I am taking it and my work pension and joining the others out of the door.

 

[Diogenes the Cynic]

The retirement problem is not going away, the number if people I know who are jubbing work lately is mad really.
After 40 odd years of working they are not going to work for buttons as they have the means to either stop altogether or go part time.
Maybe it time to link the pension to what you have actually put in
Number of years in work = x amount of pension.
By the time I finish I will have worked 50 years solid , but only get 35 towards get my full pension.
Can't see me going to the end, if we get redundancy , I am taking it and my work pension and joining the others out of the door.

The immediate thing that jumps out is that you'd have accusations of sexism from women who've taken time out of work to have children.

Although statistically women live longer so perhaps they can work longer too, pensions in line with life expectancy would be an interesting development.

Some parts of UK would probably be pensioned off at 50 with this method though.

 

[Bruce Wayne]

The retirement problem is not going away, the number if people I know who are jubbing work lately is mad really.
After 40 odd years of working they are not going to work for buttons as they have the means to either stop altogether or go part time.
Maybe it time to link the pension to what you have actually put in
Number of years in work = x amount of pension.
By the time I finish I will have worked 50 years solid , but only get 35 towards get my full pension.
Can't see me going to the end, if we get redundancy , I am taking it and my work pension and joining the others out of the door.

It's a dilemma for sure. Historically pension reform has been extremely difficult around the world and evidence suggests that governments seldom take the necessary steps until things are about to hit the fan as they appreciate that it's electorally very dangerous and prefer to kick the can down the road to whoever comes after them.

 

[edge]

It's a dilemma for sure. Historically pension reform has been extremely difficult around the world and evidence suggests that governments seldom take the necessary steps until things are about to hit the fan as they appreciate that it's electorally very dangerous and prefer to kick the can down the road to whoever comes after them.

Going to get worse mate.
People of my generation are generally sitting on a bit of property or at least could swap there house for a flat or smaller one, funny enough covid has given many a taste for getting off the rat race.
I think next few years people are just going to say that's me i am done.
I know I am feeling a bit like that now,can't motivate myself and to be honest a bit worn out , shifts are doing me no good.
Already been offerd a few little jobs , just to tick over so can't see me going on for much longer.
I know you rent mate, but if you had a house up there you could sell up ,buy a lovely house in a good area and still have money to live on.
More and more are moving up here doing exactly that.
Surprising the number of southerners popping up here.
Was talking to two east end types the other week who had moved a into caravan park in the countryside, absolutely loving it.
Pair of right characters, talking to everyone, fella was made up when I told him to fk off your doing my head in, said that's why I love it here, fk yourself as well see you again mate and walked off with a smile.

 

[Cool_Blue]

The retirement problem is not going away, the number if people I know who are jubbing work lately is mad really.
After 40 odd years of working they are not going to work for buttons as they have the means to either stop altogether or go part time.
Maybe it time to link the pension to what you have actually put in
Number of years in work = x amount of pension.
By the time I finish I will have worked 50 years solid , but only get 35 towards get my full pension.
Can't see me going to the end, if we get redundancy , I am taking it and my work pension and joining the others out of the door.

Exactly. I worked for 43, and after about 40 I asked the company’s visiting ‘pension expert’ why i had to keep contributing NI if I’d already paid my 35 years contributions. He laughed and said ‘oh it doesn’t work like that’. I thought, well it effin well should do.

 

[Bruce Wayne]

Exactly. I worked for 43, and after about 40 I asked the company’s visiting ‘pension expert’ why i had to keep contributing NI if I’d already paid my 35 years contributions. He laughed and said ‘oh it doesn’t work like that’. I thought, well it effin well should do.

It's a common misconception that our NI contributions go into a pension pot with our name on, when in reality they're paying for the pensions of those currently in retirement. It would quite probably be a much better system if we each had our own pension pot, but I'm not sure how it would work for those who didn't contribute much/enough through their working life. It's this mechanism that makes the demographic situation difficult as not only are pensioners living longer in retirement (and therefore need more in total state pension payouts), but there are also fewer working people for each retiree to pay for them than was previously the case. About 10% of all government spending at the moment is on pensions, which is roughly 3x that spent on welfare.

 

[Jebus_lives]

Well worth a read on the Government approach to asylum and aid.

UK aid to refugees in the UK - Independent Commission for Aid Impact

icai.independent.gov.uk

Some highlights:

• There is a hierarchy among the UK’s many schemes and approaches to different groups of refugees and asylum seekers. The level of support received by refugees and asylum seekers depends on the schemes they fall under, not their needs, creating inequity in the provision of support, with no clear humanitarian rationale.
• The Home Office’s response to the UK’s asylum and refugee accommodation crisis has not gone beyond short-term fixes.

 

[Jebus_lives]

Braverman’s claims ‘will stop slavery victims getting help’

Government’s former anti-slavery commissioner tells MPs home secretary has made it harder for victims to come forward

www.opendemocracy.net

Told you.