2020/21 Anthony Gordon

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There is something about Anthony Gordon, he just has that extra something that not all players have, his problem is harnessing his gift and producing it consistently. He also needs to improve his finishing, but hey, we said that about another one of our youngsters recently and he has shown us that a player can improve his finishing.

I think this loan can do a lot for Anthony, if he has a few more man of the match performances and slots a few for Preston, it will give him confidence. The jury is out on Anthony, but, I have seen enough flashes of ability from him to be hopeful we have a good player on our hands.

It's his ability to do something senior pro's can't deal with. I always think with younger players now you need an exceptional area to make it. My concern for our academy is that we produce good rounded players who don't have anything remarkable. It's why say Onyango is a positive, as he's very tall, it's a differentiator.

Gordon's all round game is still raw, but he can ghost past players easily and has great vision to pick a pass. That gives him a real chance.
 
Branthwaite at a push I could accept, he had only played a handful of games for Carlisle. But Holgate was 18 turning 19 when we signed him and had played a full season in League 1 for Barnsley.

Didn’t know that about Sancho. Having checked, it appears he came through Watford’s academy, was poached at youth level by City. But it’d be more like Dortmund trying to claim him as a product of their academy, that’s what it’s like with us trying to claim DCL and Holgate.

I agree with your point. I don't see any of them as "our" academy products, but it's more just to say lots of teams poach players aged 16+. It's actualy quite a fruitful way to bring lads into the team.
 
I would hope the academy is capable of producing players who are at least good enough to take a bench spot ahead of the likes of Andre Gomes. We spent £23m on him and he’s pretty much widely acknowledged as being nowhere near good enough for our first team. Shouldn’t we be looking to cash in on him and fill his place on the bench with a home grown player that’s cost us nothing?
I think we need a squad of maybe 16/17 quality players, that enable us to rotate without a drop in quality and to effect games from the bench. Beneath that you need 5/6 fringe players that ensure we can cope with injury crisis or fixture congestion. This second group should, in my opinion, be made up of young developing players who have either come through the academy like Davies and Gordon, or been brought in like DCL, Holgate, Nkounkou and Branthwaite. The hope is that these young fringe players develop and move up to be regulars, and then their places are taken by other youngsters. If they don't develop, then I think they should be moved on by age 24/25 to free up their places in the fringe squad.

I think that is what Brands is starting to do now, and this season I think we've seen the likes of DCL and Davies move up the ladder whilst the likes of Dowell and Kenny have been moved on. The squad at the moment is a bit mismatched though. It's probably a bit short on quality and also too much experience within the fringe group. I mentioned before about having an experienced bench when everybody is fit. Well I could name a starting line up that most on here would agree with, and still end up with players like Olsen. Coleman, Mina, Gbamin, Delph, Gomes, Siggy, Bernard, Iwobi and King to fight it out for a subs spot. That's nearly 400 caps of International experience. For me we could easily lose 4 or 5 of those, bring in maybe 2/3 players of real quality, and 2/3 more youngsters to add to Gordon, Nkounkou, Simms and Branthwaite and we'd have a really well balanced squad.

As regards Gomes, I would call him a quality player who has lost his way for whatever reason. We see glimpses of that quality but nowhere near enough. I don't see him as somebody who is taking up a youngsters position in the squad as I don't see him as a fringe player. I see him as a quality player who isn't doing what he is getting paid for. So far I've given him the benefit of the doubt because of his awful injury, but I think he needs to show more consistency between now and the end of the season to justify his place in the squad. He may not be easy to offload though, because if we do decide to get rid it's because he isn't performing, and other clubs will be reluctant t pay decent money for him in addition to the considerable salary he is on. We have exactly the same problem with Pickford in goal. I really feel as though our best prospect with both is that they improve and get more consistent, and if they do that I have no qualms because they are both very talented players.
 
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McTominay is 24 now and has been a squad player for them for years, he hasn’t always been first name on the team sheet. Abraham is definitely a rotational option. We could do with producing a couple of players like that to stop us spending big money on the likes of Andre Gomes to be one.

I’ve said it before and I’ll say it again, Rooney was the worst thing that could’ve happened to us from an academy point of view. Every player coming through is immediately put up against him and expected to be ripping up the Premier League by the age of 19 otherwise they’re not good enough and destined for the Championship. We as fans need to get away from this mindset.
Tammy Abraham has half a dozen England caps and scores for Chelsea every 2.5 games. In reality he's probably more at a Ross Barkeley level than a James Vaughan/Victor Anichebe level. I'm sure we'd be utterly delighted if we had youth players of that calibre.
 
I think we need a squad of maybe 16/17 quality players, that enable us to rotate without a drop in quality and to effect games from the bench. Beneath that you need 5/6 fringe players that ensure we can cope with injury crisis or fixture congestion. This second group should, in my opinion, be made up of young developing players who have either come through the academy like Davies and Gordon, or been brought in like DCL, Holgate, Nkounkou and Branthwaite. The hope is that these young fringe players develop and move up to be regulars, and then their places are taken by other youngsters. If they don't develop, then I think they should be moved on by age 24/25 to free up their places in the fringe squad.

I think that is what Brands is starting to do now, and this season I think we've seen the likes of DCL and Davies move up the ladder whilst the likes of Dowell and Kenny have been moved on. The squad at the moment is a bit mismatched though. It's probably a bit short on quality and also too much experience within the fringe group. I mentioned before about having an experienced bench when everybody is fit. Well I could name a starting line up that most on here would agree with, and still end up with players like Olsen. Coleman, Mina, Gbamin, Delph, Gomes, Siggy, Bernard, Iwobi and King to fight it out for a subs spot. That's nearly 400 caps of International experience. For me we could easily lose 4 or 5 of those, bring in maybe 2/3 players of real quality, and 2/3 more youngsters to add to Gordon, Nkounkou, Simms and Branthwaite and we'd have a really well balanced squad.

As regards Gomes, I would call him a quality player who has lost his way for whatever reason. We see glimpses of that quality but nowhere near enough. I don't see him as somebody who is taking up a youngsters position in the squad as I don't see him as a fringe player. I see him as a quality player who isn't doing what he is getting paid for. So far I've given him the benefit of the doubt because of his awful injury, but I think he needs to show more consistency between now and the end of the season to justify his place in the squad. He may not be easy to offload though, because if we do decide to get rid it's because he isn't performing, and other clubs will be reluctant t pay decent money for him in addition to the considerable salary he is on. We have exactly the same problem with Pickford in goal. I really feel as though our best prospect with both is that they improve and get more consistent, and if they do that I have no qualms because they are both very talented players.

Good post that.

I see subtle chnages with Brands. There's no doubt people want Brands to come in, and make massive transformational change immediately which he hasn't done. That can tend to go 1 of 2 ways, and normally the negative. He's left the academy be for 2.5 years, seen how they do it, and now is looking to tinker with it to improve the areas that it needs improving. I think in general, when you do that in management, it's always a better way, and you always get more from people if they feel you are trying to work with them, as opposed to against them.

I'd still like to hear a bit more about what he's doing, maybe a sit down interview with the club website, then the Athletic and a couple of the fan channels would be really sensible.

I always remember my dad (who's claim to fame was being coached by a certain Ray Hall, and god does he still dine out on that one as if he was the one who got away for Everton) would always say we wanted to have the youngest teams, particularly at the 18's and reserve level. For the most part we did. There were a number of reasons for it too, not least money (the club really couldn't afford to keep younger players till they were 22/23 and had to make clearer decisions). I always thought it worked well for Everton, and though many try to singularly blame Unsworth, I think a lot of factors led us to moving away from it (Unsworth was one factor).

Whats been pleasing is the 18's have been getting younger, increasing numbers of schoolboys playing for them, and the 23's have also started to get younger again. The last few games I've seen, we have had younger teams than our opponents, and lots of 1st year scholars involved. Small has made a name for himself, Onyango is now a regular and Price is making himself a regular. This is great, he went up against Doyle, who's 2 years older than him, and gave a really good account of himself. Last game it was Galbraith, who again is 3 years older and a full international (for Northern Ireland). Brilliant experience. Whittaker, Welch and Butterfield as 1st year scholars are close to the team too, and it's a real shame Dobbin has been injured as you feel he would be getting a fair not of game time were he now. All the names there are being "fast tracked" which is what we need to happen.

You do sense some of Brands involvement. Nkounkou and Brainthwaite have come in and gone straight through to the first team Jagne is back with the 18's, but looks massive in that age group. It's less scattergun, but we are identifying players who can go into the 1st team squad. Hopefully we will see more of that too, as we try, to push lads forward.

He jis also clearing places out of the squad. Recruitment is getting more measured and the previous 2 winters he didn't recruit anyone and that allowed Brainthwaite/Gordon to play last season and DCL to kick on the season before. I think you are right in saying, probably 16-18 versatile players the manager trusts then probably 6-8 players from our system makes sense (these can also be like a Tom Davies, so say 22 and itching to make himself into that 1st group).

Thats Gordon's challenge too. It's worth noting that, that really Holgate, DCL and Davies have all had big steps forward at 22. DCL's continyed through the age of 23 as well, and the hope will be Holgate and Davies can have a similar jump. From almost good Premier league player, to top Premier league player in DCL's case. Gordon has just turned 20, and any experience he can get now is valuable.
 

If we play 4-2-3-1 which I now think we have the players to utilise this system, he can play left wing or number 10 comfortably he has also played right wing and as a striker. A very useful sub to have. He would be a different type of 10 to James or Sigurdsson.
 

It's his ability to do something senior pro's can't deal with. I always think with younger players now you need an exceptional area to make it. My concern for our academy is that we produce good rounded players who don't have anything remarkable. It's why say Onyango is a positive, as he's very tall, it's a differentiator.

Gordon's all round game is still raw, but he can ghost past players easily and has great vision to pick a pass. That gives him a real chance.

.....’we produce good rounded players who don’t have anything remarkable’.

Perhaps that’s more to do with recruitment than coaching.
 
Tammy Abraham has half a dozen England caps and scores for Chelsea every 2.5 games. In reality he's probably more at a Ross Barkeley level than a James Vaughan/Victor Anichebe level. I'm sure we'd be utterly delighted if we had youth players of that calibre.
DCL is far better than Tammy Abraham’s
 
If we had a youth player like Phill Foden he would have been out on loan to this day - like many others we have showing promise.....

We didn't even send Davies out on loan when he was stinking the place out for the last 3 seasons so how did you come to that conclusion?
 

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