2020/21 Anthony Gordon

[Barnfred 55]

But why though? Why does every academy player have to be “something special”? Is it because of Rooney, are we waiting for the next one of those to come through? Can an academy player not just do a job fulfilling a role in the squad for a few seasons?

I think it has more to do with the evolvement of the team than the quality of the youngster. As fans, there's no doubt in my mind that we do judge players against Rooney, and that is very harsh on the young lads coming through now because Rooney was the English player of a generation, maybe 2 generations. But you can't easily ignore the fact that the quality of the first team squad is now a lot better than it used to be, and it is much harder to break into now. When everyone is fit we have 7/8 seasoned Internationals on the subs bench. It's extremely hard for young kids to get even a look in.

With European football next year there may be more of an opportunity. We have Davies who is integral to the squad at the moment and I certainly haven't given up on Gordon yet, nor Ellis Simms for that matter.

 

[JMT]

We’re not a top team? And anyway teams like Chelsea and United have absolutely loads of them.

I mean we're aspiring to be one.

They have loads now. Williams, McTominay, Tuanzebe. Chelsea have Abraham, James, Mount. Spurs have the likes of Winks and Tanganga. Players that aren’t seen as world beaters, but serve a purpose in the squad and stop you needing to spend money on some average player to be a rotational option.

Meh that's fair, I think James/Mount/Abraham and McTominay are doing more than just "fulfilling a role" though, I think they're pretty talented or highly thought of by the respected clubs, Winks/Williams/Tuanzebe I can agree with.

 

[Mkjjones]

Yeah, they are young, the fact that if we have a 17-20 year old in a squad fulfilling post Orion is promising, give them 5 years of experience, now they’re 23-25. Even better, u rarely get good young top talents at this age, that’s why they cost a lot.

Position

 

[MikeH72]

I mean we're aspiring to be one.

Meh that's fair, I think James/Mount/Abraham and McTominay are doing more than just "fulfilling a role" though, I think they're pretty talented or highly thought of by the respected clubs, Winks/Williams/Tuanzebe I can agree with.

McTominay is 24 now and has been a squad player for them for years, he hasn’t always been first name on the team sheet. Abraham is definitely a rotational option. We could do with producing a couple of players like that to stop us spending big money on the likes of Andre Gomes to be one.

I’ve said it before and I’ll say it again, Rooney was the worst thing that could’ve happened to us from an academy point of view. Every player coming through is immediately put up against him and expected to be ripping up the Premier League by the age of 19 otherwise they’re not good enough and destined for the Championship. We as fans need to get away from this mindset.

 

[MikeH72]

I think it has more to do with the evolvement of the team than the quality of the youngster. As fans, there's no doubt in my mind that we do judge players against Rooney, and that is very harsh on the young lads coming through now because Rooney was the English player of a generation, maybe 2 generations. But you can't easily ignore the fact that the quality of the first team squad is now a lot better than it used to be, and it is much harder to break into now. When everyone is fit we have 7/8 seasoned Internationals on the subs bench. It's extremely hard for young kids to get even a look in.

With European football next year there may be more of an opportunity. We have Davies who is integral to the squad at the moment and I certainly haven't given up on Gordon yet, nor Ellis Simms for that matter.

I would hope the academy is capable of producing players who are at least good enough to take a bench spot ahead of the likes of Andre Gomes. We spent £23m on him and he’s pretty much widely acknowledged as being nowhere near good enough for our first team. Shouldn’t we be looking to cash in on him and fill his place on the bench with a home grown player that’s cost us nothing?

 

[blueblue]

We have Davies and Gordon who are genuine academy products, we also have onyango who is just starting to find his way into the first team squad and possibly also John Joe Kenny who certainly does not appear to be out of CA 's thinking just yet.

In addition Holgate, Branthwaite and DCL all came to the club as academy players and did spend some little time there before first team opportunities presented them selves.

Our record with young players is quite good imo.

 

[MikeH72]

We have Davies and Gordon who are genuine academy products, we also have onyango who is just starting to find his way into the first team squad and possibly also John Joe Kenny who certainly does not appear to be out of CA 's thinking just yet.

In addition Holgate, Branthwaite and DCL all came to the club as academy players and did spend some little time there before first team opportunities presented them selves.

Our record with young players is quite good imo.

Can’t count these imo, we bought all of them. They’re not products of our academy.

 

[catcherintherye]

Yeah. Loved his interview afterwards, not negative as such, but totally focused on all the things he could do better. Good to see him not resting on his laurels being MotM in his first game.

Yes absolutely. I know a few on here aren't sure of him, but I think he does certain things outstandingly well for his age. They are making incisive through balls, and also the way he dribbles.

I have spoken a bit in the youth teams thread how we make competitive, decent, solid footballers in our academy. Part of the probem is, 20+ years ago that was enough. The team and the league was poorer. Now you need that bit more. Of the current group, Onynago is huge and Small is fast and incredibly strong for his age, so they stand out. Gordon is very quick, and has a real ability to glide past players when confident. We need to see a lot more of that. His role in a team is never going to be as a safe player, getting back into shape etc. He is a difference maker in the final 3rd.

This season hasn't gone to plan for him. That doesn't mean it's all over for him, or it's all bad. But hopefully this loan can be a positive end to the season for him.

 

[Simon Buttle]

I would hope the academy is capable of producing players who are at least good enough to take a bench spot ahead of the likes of Andre Gomes. We spent £23m on him and he’s pretty much widely acknowledged as being nowhere near good enough for our first team. Shouldn’t we be looking to cash in on him and fill his place on the bench with a home grown player that’s cost us nothing?

Agree on Gomes but just think how long it's taken for Davies to actually string a run of a few good games together and show something given he already has over 100+ games. Either these youngsters need to be good enough to step up or someone else has to come in until they are ready which potentially blocks the pathway for them in the future.

 

[catcherintherye]

Can’t count these imo, we bought all of them. They’re not products of our academy.

That is true, but most teams, when they buy in other players tend to have them counted by others as academy products. Most of Liverpool's 23's are lads they've brought in.

 

[MikeH72]

Agree on Gomes but just think how long it's taken for Davies to actually string a run of a few good games together and show something given he already has over 100+ games. Either these youngsters need to be good enough to step up or someone else has to come in until they are ready which potentially blocks the pathway for them in the future.

Davies has served a purpose for us for a few seasons now, yet he gets pelters from the fans because people thought he was gonna burst onto the scene and be “our Gerrard”, which is another annoying thing that our fans are clinging to and waiting to magically pop up from our academy. This has been going on for as long as the Rooney thing. Davies has had tough times without a doubt, but he has done us a job and now looks to be developing into something you might consider an actual first team player. If we could’ve got this out of him maybe a couple of years ago, we could’ve avoided buying players like Gomes and Delph.

 

[MikeH72]

That is true, but most teams, when they buy in other players tend to have them counted by others as academy products. Most of Liverpool's 23's are lads they've brought in.

If you buy a player in at like 15/16 then I can understand counting them, but all those players were around 19 and had been playing first team football in the lower leagues, they weren’t youth team players.

 

[mightymoyes]

They have loads now. Williams, McTominay, Tuanzebe. Chelsea have Abraham, James, Mount. Spurs have the likes of Winks and Tanganga. Players that aren’t seen as world beaters, but serve a purpose in the squad and stop you needing to spend money on some average player to be a rotational option.

yip, though i think you're underrating mount, he plays every game and plenty consider him potentially great

 

[catcherintherye]

If you buy a player in at like 15/16 then I can understand counting them, but all those players were around 19 and had been playing first team football in the lower leagues, they weren’t youth team players.

To be fair we got Brainthwaite at 16, Holgate at 17 etc. I mean you're right, but lots of other teams do similar.

Like Sancho at City is claimed as theres. They bought him at 16 and sold him at 17. How is he a City academy graduate really?

 

[MikeH72]

To be fair we got Brainthwaite at 16, Holgate at 17 etc. I mean you're right, but lots of other teams do similar.

Like Sancho at City is claimed as theres. They bought him at 16 and sold him at 17. How is he a City academy graduate really?

Branthwaite at a push I could accept, he had only played a handful of games for Carlisle. But Holgate was 18 turning 19 when we signed him and had played a full season in League 1 for Barnsley.

Didn’t know that about Sancho. Having checked, it appears he came through Watford’s academy, was poached at youth level by City. But it’d be more like Dortmund trying to claim him as a product of their academy, that’s what it’s like with us trying to claim DCL and Holgate.