Anichebe

[ToxtethBlue]

We've had this discussion several times. Answer is no he isn't, at least not as a premier league striker.
I'd say he's got two career options - either drop down a league and be satisfied with making a bigger splash in the Championship or drop back into midfield and make better use of his physical presence while working on his game reading, interception and distribution.
As I've suggested before he could make far more impression as a defensive midfielder, than he does in front of goal.

You need to be able to tackle, hold your position and read the game in defensive midfield. You also need to have a decent passing range. Anichebe would be lost in that position.

He's 19/20 and he's had around 20 odd starts in his whole career. Hardly enough to judge and player and say whether or not he should drop a League. They haven't been consistent games either, he's simply come in and done a job every once a while. And funnily enough he's scored 11 goals in those limited amount of appearences scattered out over two and a half years which isn't bad at all.

You don't need to be a natural goalscorer to be a Premier League striker, certainly a decent level Premier League striker. As Emile Heskey has proved you can be a good team striker a compliment the goalscorer. Victor has similar attributes to Heskey, he could be a similar player. We really don't know but I don't see the point in writing him off already.

 

[Robin Sisland]

You need to be able to tackle, hold your position and read the game in defensive midfield. You also need to have a decent passing range. Anichebe would be lost in that position.

You do indeed, as I mentioned.
DM suits a more mature player with a broad range of skills and for that reason isn't a position that many young players aspire to start out in. Fact is at the same time lots of young players who start out as strikers, drop back when they realise they don't have the necessary final touch, but continue playing at the top level.

He's 19/20 and he's had around 20 odd starts in his whole career. Hardly enough to judge and player and say whether or not he should drop a League. They haven't been consistent games either, he's simply come in and done a job every once a while. And funnily enough he's scored 11 goals in those limited amount of appearences scattered out over two and a half years which isn't bad at all.

11 goals in 20 starts sounds a lot better than 11 goals in 69 appearances, which gives a more accurate reflection of his career to date. And we should remember that 4 of those goals (5?) were in the Uefa cup against weak opposition, which tends to support my contention that he would be more successful in the Championship.

 

[ToxtethBlue]

11 goals in 24 starts and 57 sub appearances.

That isn’t bad at all, certainly for a player who is very inexperienced and is still learning his trade. As Kenada said there are very few 20 year old centre forwards leading the line in top Leagues like England. You have to be realistic and look at the bigger picture.
Where was Drogba at 20? Where was Luka Toni at 20? Even Emile Heskey is starting to mature into a good striker after years of inconsistency. Now I’m not saying Victor is by any means in there League but he’s in the same mould style wise. He’s a powerful centre forward and alot of powerful centre forwards get better with experience. They learn to use there physical attributes to the max and bully defenders.

As Slight_Return said, he needs to learn that he is an ox. He needs to learn how to use his physical tools and that may come with time or it may not. We’ll have to wait and see but I don’t think it’s fair to judge now, he plays every once and a while and people expect him to be at the same level as the likes of Yakubu. Technically, physically and mentally he just isn’t ready to do that. He’s not Wayne Rooney, he’s Victor Anichebe.

There are many different types of strikers; Victor quite clearly is not a natural goal scorer. He doesn’t get into the right positions and his finishing is inconsistent as we know. But I can see him being potentially a good team striker. A battering ram, someone who can hold the ball up and compliment the striker. His hold up play, touch and technique have definatly improved this season, there’s no doubts about that.

 

[Robin Sisland]

11 goals in 24 starts and 57 sub appearances.
As Kenada said there are very few 20 year old centre forwards leading the line in top Leagues like England.

That's because over the past 15 years the inundation of TV money in the EPL has allowed teams to bring in increasing numbers of proven players from other countries. The pool of professional players available to EPL teams is (guessing) 20 or 30 times larger than it was say in the 1980s.

This includes non EU countries, players from which have to have played in a given percentage of their country's international matches. A rule which favours older players - hence few 19-20 year old strikers being brought from overseas.

Just run through the EPL teams and tell me how many have a 1st choice striker who has come up through the British club system. Our 1st two are Nigerian and French.


You have to be realistic and look at the bigger picture.

Where was Drogba at 20?

Playing for a French 2nd div team. True he was a late developer, but with strikers the norm is for the opposite - early flowering on the back of explosive pace followed by a more 'skill' driven maturity and a gentle decline as the pace goes.

Even Emile Heskey is starting to mature into a good striker after years of inconsistency.

He averaged a goal every 4 games at Liecester and Liverpool aged 18-28. He's averaged one in five at wigan over the past two seasons.

here are many different types of strikers; Victor quite clearly is not a natural goal scorer.

Not a huge asset to a team that plays 4:5:1 then.

Don't get me wrong I think Vic's a great player and clearly a mode professional. I just don't think he's going to have much more impact than he already has.

 

[ToxtethBlue]

That's because over the past 15 years the inundation of TV money in the EPL has allowed teams to bring in increasing numbers of proven players from other countries. The pool of professional players available to EPL teams is (guessing) 20 or 30 times larger than it was say in the 1980s.

This includes non EU countries, players from which have to have played in a given percentage of their country's international matches. A rule which favours older players - hence few 19-20 year old strikers being brought from overseas.

Just run through the EPL teams and tell me how many have a 1st choice striker who has come up through the British club system. Our 1st two are Nigerian and French.


You have to be realistic and look at the bigger picture.





Playing for a French 2nd div team. True he was a late developer, but with strikers the norm is for the opposite - early flowering on the back of explosive pace followed by a more 'skill' driven maturity and a gentle decline as the pace goes.




He averaged a goal every 4 games at Liecester and Liverpool aged 18-28. He's averaged one in five at wigan over the past two seasons.




Not a huge asset to a team that plays 4:5:1 then.

Don't get me wrong I think Vic's a great player and clearly a mode professional. I just don't think he's going to have much more impact than he already has.

Fair enough Robin, you make some good points and it's all about opinions. We'll just have to disagree.

 

[kenada_blue]

That's because over the past 15 years the inundation of TV money in the EPL has allowed teams to bring in increasing numbers of proven players from other countries. The pool of professional players available to EPL teams is (guessing) 20 or 30 times larger than it was say in the 1980s.

This includes non EU countries, players from which have to have played in a given percentage of their country's international matches. A rule which favours older players - hence few 19-20 year old strikers being brought from overseas.

Just run through the EPL teams and tell me how many have a 1st choice striker who has come up through the British club system. Our 1st two are Nigerian and French.


You have to be realistic and look at the bigger picture.

I wasnt saying about just EPL players coming through the ranks, I'm talking about 18-20 year old strikers across the leagues in the world that are 20-30 goals a season or 1st team strikers. There arent many. If there were, they'd be either bought buy bigger clubs or be world class like Messi, Rooney, etc - even players like Bojan at Barcalona who looks awesome is still only 18 and barely plays for Barca at the moment because he's "not quite there yet".

And look at the youth strikers in the EPL that arent getting games either but make impact in spells as subs - Vela and Arsenal, Ngog at the RS, Sears at West Ham, Welbeck at Man Utd, Sturridge at Citeh, Delfonso at Villa - all of them 17-19. But they're not the finished article, and wont be till they're 22-28 and when they get games under their belt.

The only one that I think will develope well is Frazier Campbell. Reason being is that he shined in the Championship playing week in week out, and is almost preffered over Darren Bent at times at Spurs. He's only 19 or so and making an impact so you can see where his development is heading because of the ammount of games he's played.

Vic needs a loan out a and big run of games, we know this. But the current squad is that waffer thin its not going to happen so he's going to get a chance at the top flight which will do him the world of good IMO. Throw him in the deep end and learn from and against the best.

 

[Cal]

He's useless upfront and i'd much rather have Cahill and Fellaini.

 

[Neiler]

|For me there a difference between a centre forward and a striker, Anicbe is a centre forward. He occupies defenders, makes space for others and does his best without innate ability/quality to finish chances. Defo has a role at the club. I think he has the ability to cause havoc for defenders making chances for better finishers.

 

[Robin Sisland]

Fair enough Robin, you make some good points and it's all about opinions. We'll just have to disagree.

Fair dos. I'd love to see him turn into a 20 goal a season striker, but I think with the current EPL structure where clubs have the money to pull in players from all over the world the chances of that happening are slim.

20 years ago it was a different story and hopefully one day we'll see a return to a system relying more heavily on local talent. Just Vic's bad luck to be around now.

 

[Robin Sisland]

I wasnt saying about just EPL players coming through the ranks, I'm talking about 18-20 year old strikers across the leagues in the world that are 20-30 goals a season or 1st team strikers. There arent many.

Well if you look at the countries that are net exporters of players to the richer leagues and where the clubs can't afford to pay serious wages I'm sure you'll find no end of teenaged strikers.

FYI :

Barcelona = one of the richest clubs in the world = don't need to play kids

Everton = not = do

 

[Sharpys top lip]

He's just not good enough, end ov!!

 

[HalewoodBlue_ver.2.0]

The lad needs a good run in the side and he will make it. He has all the talent he just needs nurturing. The progress from just 2yrs ago is amazing

 

[kenada_blue]

Well if you look at the countries that are net exporters of players to the richer leagues and where the clubs can't afford to pay serious wages I'm sure you'll find no end of teenaged strikers.

FYI :

Barcelona = one of the richest clubs in the world = don't need to play kids

Everton = not = do

But there lies the point reagarding giving the players a run of games.

Barca dont need to but would if the players were awesomely talanted like Messi, or they get rid of talant because they can (Arteta, Fabregas), like you say, buy more developed players.

And yes, they'll be teenage players playing week in week out in teams in lower leagues/cash strapped clubs. But because they're playing week in week out they develope to a point when they're quality players aged 22-28 and get bought by the big clubs like Barca etc if they're good enough.

They've got to start somewhere. Vic needs more games and more time to be a finished article whether its a striker or forward or winger - he needs to develope before we can rubbish him off. How many youth players have slipped through our academy because they aint [Poor language removed] hot by 18 years old?

And also - Man Utd and Arsenal have shown that you can achieve things with untapped youth over the years - and they have big money to spend.

 

[Robin Sisland]

But there lies the point reagarding giving the players a run of games.

Barca dont need to but would if the players were awesomely talanted like Messi, or they get rid of talant because they can (Arteta, Fabregas), like you say, buy more developed players.

And yes, they'll be teenage players playing week in week out in teams in lower leagues/cash strapped clubs. But because they're playing week in week out they develope to a point when they're quality players aged 22-28 and get bought by the big clubs like Barca etc if they're good enough.

They've got to start somewhere. Vic needs more games and more time to be a finished article whether its a striker or forward or winger - he needs to develope before we can rubbish him off. How many youth players have slipped through our academy because they aint [Poor language removed] hot by 18 years old?

And also - Man Utd and Arsenal have shown that you can achieve things with untapped youth over the years - and they have big money to spend.

Well if your point is that Vic needs to be loaned out to develop, you could be right. Although I can't see it happening, especially not this season.

Agree with you re united's youth policy. I've never said it wasn't possible to develop local talent. Although more of Utd's youth players seem to make it to the first team before being sold on for money. Whereas we just give ours away.
I thought Arsenal's trick was to buy in youth players other clubs have developed.

And I wonder how much longer we can keep this 21 year old in the academy.

 

[kenada_blue]

Well if your point is that Vic needs to be loaned out to develop, you could be right. Although I can't see it happening, especially not this season.

Agree with you re united's youth policy. I've never said it wasn't possible to develop local talent. Although more of Utd's youth players seem to make it to the first team before being sold on for money. Whereas we just give ours away.
I thought Arsenal's trick was to buy in youth players other clubs have developed.

And I wonder how much longer we can keep this 21 year old in the academy.

Yeah, loaning him out if he cant get games, but its not going to happen this season I agree. So I think we should throw him in and see where he needs to improve at the top level then see about loaning him out next season if we can.

Arsenal just have an eye for great talant. They got Fabregas when he was 16 (I think), Vela is about 17, then you've got Wilshire, Ramsey (who did play 1st team for Cardiff), I'm sure they got Anelka when he was a pup too and Henry when he wasnt [Poor language removed] hot but very good - I guess they just mix it up.