2020/21 Andre Gomes

[BlueToff]

Holds on to the ball much better than any other cm.

I said this a few weeks back. He does keep things 'ticking over' in that sense.

He wasn't good enough in the derby and without Richarlison then I see why he played Gylfi - more of a goal threat than Gomes.

He's a part of our strongest team as it stands, though.

He'll be in next week I'm sure.

 

[Lanolin]

Probably worth remembering that we were perfectly fine without him against West Ham and Brighton. The idea that he must be the glue that holds us together because we lost yesterday might just be a little bit reactionary.

 

[johnjoeefc]

He would have been no better than sigurdsson in that game against southampton. The key issue was when we were on top early in the game we didn't look decisive or like we had much of a cutting edge. When they attacked they looked dangerous. I think tactically they had one on us. Just got to take it on the Chin and work twice as hard now to try to get maximum points from the next two

 

[Terrarian]

The only CM willing to take any risks with his passing, we desperately need him to find some consistency. Gylfi just isn't a CM for me.

 

[BlueToff]

Probably worth remembering that we were perfectly fine without him against West Ham and Brighton. The idea that he must be the glue that holds us together because we lost yesterday might just be a little bit reactionary.

Don't think he's the glue at all but we weren't fine without him v Brighton.

Our main miss, again, in that game was Richarlison after he went off (he is the glue) but we did struggle to keep hold of the ball against Brighton. We had like 43% of the ball or something.

Yes, we played largely on the counter in the second half but we did give possession away a lot.

Gomes was poor in the derby, I actually had no issues with him getting dropped yesterday. But, I think it did show what he can bring to us and we missed it not being there.

We haven't played well, as a team, in any of our last three league games. We played well against Brighton in flashes - enough quality to see them off.

 

[Lanolin]

I don't think we played particularly well in some of the other games either though, Brighton was no different in that regard to the first half against West Brom for example. I'm not having a go at Gomes, it's just proper bizarre knee jerk stuff like people saying 'we can't get the ball to James without Gomes playing'. As I said, we didn't seem to struggle with that against Brighton.

 

[BlueToff]

I don't think we played particularly well in some of the other games either though, Brighton was no different in that regard to the first half against West Brom for example. I'm not having a go at Gomes, it's just proper bizarre knee jerk stuff like people saying 'we can't get the ball to James without Gomes playing'. As I said, we didn't seem to struggle with that against Brighton.

Yeah I mean James just couldn't get in the game yesterday but that's not down to missing Gomes really.

Gomes just tends to - not always, as seen against the RS - be better at holding onto the ball in tight situations, which allows us to progress upfield.

 

[Lanolin]

Yeah I mean James just couldn't get in the game yesterday but that's not down to missing Gomes really.

Gomes just tends to - not always, as seen against the RS - be better at holding onto the ball in tight situations, which allows us to progress upfield.

I don't know, I just feel like it's putting 2 and 2 together to get 5. Personally I think a much bigger issue yesterday was the lack of any sort of threat in behind, it just made us very easy to suppress and meant that transition was going to be slow whoever was in midfield. I'd pick Gomes over Sigurdsson every day of the week to be honest, but it's just one of those situations where suddenly he becomes a much better player in people's minds than he has actually shown for an awfully long time. Some of the worst midfield performances i've ever seen from Everton came with Gomes in the middle last season, I just find it odd that just a couple of months later people convince themselves it wouldn't happen with him playing.

 

[catcherintherye]

I don't know, I just feel like it's putting 2 and 2 together to get 5. Personally I think a much bigger issue yesterday was the lack of any sort of threat in behind, it just made us very easy to suppress and meant that transition was going to be slow whoever was in midfield. I'd pick Gomes over Sigurdsson every day of the week to be honest, but it's just one of those situations where suddenly he becomes a much better player in people's minds than he has actually shown for an awfully long time. Some of the worst midfield performances i've ever seen from Everton came with Gomes in the middle last season, I just find it odd that just a couple of months later people convince themselves it wouldn't happen with him playing.

I honestly couldn't complain with Sigurdsson starting yesterday. Gomes hasn't had one of his "majestic" games really since probbly Arsenal way (the sort of game where he seems to just look effortlessly above the rest). I think he looked tidy at times at Spurs and Palace but he really struggled in the derby. Sigurdsson has done well off the bench. Yesterday has probably taught us there's a world of difference between coming off the bench when we are winning to starting a game though.

There are some issues emerging from yesterday and that threat in behind was a big one. I've seen some takes that Iwobi was ok first 20. I really disagree, he was involved but he wasn't impressive. He as picked out on 3 or 4 occasions and did very little with the ball. He is primarily responsible for our lack of threat in behind, as he just doesn't want to run in behind, kick it out of his face and go in on goal like Richarlinson does.

Southampton started by doubling up on James, then crowded him with 3 or 4 as they knew his switch to Iwobi was pointless. He can't play wide in this team in my view, he can only really play inside and knit the play.

Bernard is also not a runner in behind really. Gordon is the closest to Richarlinson we have, so thats where I would look.

I really don't want to hate Iwobi, but he really does test the patience.

 

[Lanolin]

I honestly couldn't complain with Sigurdsson starting yesterday. Gomes hasn't had one of his "majestic" games really since probbly Arsenal way (the sort of game where he seems to just look effortlessly above the rest). I think he looked tidy at times at Spurs and Palace but he really struggled in the derby. Sigurdsson has done well off the bench. Yesterday has probably taught us there's a world of difference between coming off the bench when we are winning to starting a game though.

There are some issues emerging from yesterday and that threat in behind was a big one. I've seen some takes that Iwobi was ok first 20. I really disagree, he was involved but he wasn't impressive. He as picked out on 3 or 4 occasions and did very little with the ball. He is primarily responsible for our lack of threat in behind, as he just doesn't want to run in behind, kick it out of his face and go in on goal like Richarlinson does.

Southampton started by doubling up on James, then crowded him with 3 or 4 as they knew his switch to Iwobi was pointless. He can't play wide in this team in my view, he can only really play inside and knit the play.

Bernard is also not a runner in behind really. Gordon is the closest to Richarlinson we have, so thats where I would look.

I really don't want to hate Iwobi, but he really does test the patience.

Yep, hard to disagree with a word of that.

 

[catcherintherye]

Yep, hard to disagree with a word of that.

To bring it back to Gomes, I'm not entirely sure what he brings that is too different, unless he starts to consistently play at his A game level. That Gomes, the one at Anfield, or Stamford Bridge/Olympic stadium in his 1st season makes a difference, but we don't see that very often.

 

[Lanolin]

To bring it back to Gomes, I'm not entirely sure what he brings that is too different, unless he starts to consistently play at his A game level. That Gomes, the one at Anfield, or Stamford Bridge/Olympic stadium in his 1st season makes a difference, but we don't see that very often.

Yeah if he could be even 80% of the player he looked like in those games every week then he'd never need to worry about his place in the team again, but as you say those games have been very much the exception unfortunately. The reason I commented originally was actually because I think a game like yesterday is exactly the type of game where he normally struggles. Their midfield was quick and pressed relentlessly, which he usually really struggles to cope with, and he's prone to having the ball nicked off him and allowing counters. I think Sigurdsson had been doing well and probably theoretically 'deserved' a chance, but I have to admit I worry a bit about Ancelotti seemingly seeing him as an actual midfielder, because he just isn't one and he's proved it so many times.

 

[JLW]

I honestly couldn't complain with Sigurdsson starting yesterday. Gomes hasn't had one of his "majestic" games really since probbly Arsenal way (the sort of game where he seems to just look effortlessly above the rest). I think he looked tidy at times at Spurs and Palace but he really struggled in the derby. Sigurdsson has done well off the bench. Yesterday has probably taught us there's a world of difference between coming off the bench when we are winning to starting a game though.

There are some issues emerging from yesterday and that threat in behind was a big one. I've seen some takes that Iwobi was ok first 20. I really disagree, he was involved but he wasn't impressive. He as picked out on 3 or 4 occasions and did very little with the ball. He is primarily responsible for our lack of threat in behind, as he just doesn't want to run in behind, kick it out of his face and go in on goal like Richarlinson does.

Southampton started by doubling up on James, then crowded him with 3 or 4 as they knew his switch to Iwobi was pointless. He can't play wide in this team in my view, he can only really play inside and knit the play.

Bernard is also not a runner in behind really. Gordon is the closest to Richarlinson we have, so thats where I would look.

I really don't want to hate Iwobi, but he really does test the patience.

I don’t even hate Iwobi I just think he’s crap .
I’m still trying to work out what position he is
I can tell you what he’s not.
A winger
A striker
no 10
Midfielder
Defender

Edit: Just checked and this is the Gomes thread

 

[catcherintherye]

Yeah if he could be even 80% of the player he looked like in those games every week then he'd never need to worry about his place in the team again, but as you say those games have been very much the exception unfortunately. The reason I commented originally was actually because I think a game like yesterday is exactly the type of game where he normally struggles. Their midfield was quick and pressed relentlessly, which he usually really struggles to cope with, and he's prone to having the ball nicked off him and allowing counters. I think Sigurdsson had been doing well and probably theoretically 'deserved' a chance, but I have to admit I worry a bit about Ancelotti seemingly seeing him as an actual midfielder, because he just isn't one and he's proved it so many times.

I'm not really sure what would be his naturally good game. His strength when he plays well is playing through the press. The easy answer is he's lost that ability to go past people post injury. However it was always hit and miss before. I suspect it's a confidence thing with him.

I personally would look to Delph.

 

[BarryThompson1]

Turned into Scnhederlin .