Aiming for the Champions League? Damn Right!

[noharmdone]

No mention of either Knives.. Or Gunfights... Rubbish Tubey.

 

[davek]

We've been pretty bobbins at counter attacking then.

Spurs game away showed we can do it well. We allow our six peer teams in this league a lot of possession and rely on the likes of Baines, Coleman, Mirallas to turn them on their heels. This is the way Moyes had them playing at the end of his period in charge and what Martinez picks up. I'm not saying they cant hold onto the ball against lesser teams, they can, but it'll be a real culture shock asking this lot to be confident enough to retain possession and not pump it long against those peer teams as they have done in the past when under pressure. That's what Martinez will face.

 

[davek]

Yeah but we have no pace.

We work it to the flanks, sure, but we work it there really slowly with a lot of passes, rather than the one and two touch genuinely counter attacking stuff that say ronaldo's man u did or martinez' wigan did at goodison.

I would say if anything the transition is going to be from a possession based team to a counter attacking one.

I dont think ball retention is a strong suit of our team under moyes, in fact I'm sure the stats back it up - showing us to be very average at it. We were a reactive team under Moyes. There's no hiding away from that. Yes, we could dominate possession on occasion against weaker opponents, but I'd never describe our game as one characterized by possession football. Not at all.

 

[vissy123]

Can only really remember Pienaar against Arsenal and Mirallas against Stoke for breakaway one end to the other counter attack goals.
I agree that we should do it a bit more, I think we try to do it but never seem to be able to finish it off.

 

[Allezfan]

I dont think ball retention is a strong suit of our team under moyes, in fact I'm sure the stats back it up - showing us to be very average at it. We were a reactive team under Moyes. There's no hiding away from that. Yes, we could dominate possession on occasion against weaker opponents, but I'd never describe our game as one characterized by possession football. Not at all.

I disagree.

We sit back a lot, there's no denying that. I would never describe Moyes as an attacking manager.

But we don't counter attack, really. We mostly attack by weight of numbers. Pienaar, Osman, Fellaini, Mirallas, Jelavic and Gibson pass it around the edge of the box until the ball can be worked wide to baines or coleman.

The amount of games I've watched where we pass it up one side turn around, pass it back to the defence, pass it up the other side and then back to the defence until Jagielka loses patience and boots it into touch.

Neville and Rodwell's whole thing was only making five yard passes backwards.

 

[roydo]

Tubey, Mate, that is one of the best thread starter I can recall on here. Absolutely spot fecking on. Well in lad.

 

[toffeejack]

we don't counter attack mainly because we are absolutely ****e at it.

we have the players to play nice football, i'm looking forward to it, let's just say it's less of a transformation than liverpool under rodgers turning long ball merchants like gerrard into possession controllers; but they improved on the season before (league wise) - so there's no reason it can't be a smooth and quick transition. Then again, i don't think liverpool have really dropped their long ball strategy as it seems to be the main source of their goals last season

 

[davek]

I disagree.

We sit back a lot, there's no denying that. I would never describe Moyes as an attacking manager.

But we don't counter attack, really. We mostly attack by weight of numbers. Pienaar, Osman, Fellaini, Mirallas, Jelavic and Gibson pass it around the edge of the box until the ball can be worked wide to baines or coleman.

The amount of games I've watched where we pass it up one side turn around, pass it back to the defence, pass it up the other side and then back to the defence until Jagielka loses patience and boots it into touch.

Neville and Rodwell's whole thing was only making five yard passes backwards.

We do keep hold of the ball well in the last third when we get hold of it there; we dont look comfortable enough to do it in our own half against very good teams. We tend to play that diagonal ball from inside our own box into the last third - which is pretty hit and miss - and that will (hopefully) be largely confined to a minor role under Martinez. It's going to be a major change for these players to get their head around. I think the term 'possession football' has been diluted if we believe it to have been the hallmark of Moyes' teams!

 

[allezlesbleus]

Anyone who thinks the step up of a couple of places into a zone we were there or thereabouts all season having thrown away about 13 points from winning positions is too big a challenge should get the hell out of our club. It will be tricky of course because of the wealth of the others around us but our team can do it. Should have done it last year. L'impossible n'est pas francais!!!!!

 

[Allezfan]

We do keep hold of the ball well in the last third when we get hold of it there; we dont look comfortable enough to do it in our own half against very good teams. We tend to play that diagonal ball from inside our own box into the last third - which is pretty hit and miss - and that will (hopefully) be largely confined to a minor role under Martinez. It's going to be a major change for these players to get their head around. I think the term 'possession football' has been diluted if we believe it to have been the hallmark of Moyes' teams!

You're right that our possession is high up the pitch and often our weakness is getting the ball there.

I wouldn't call Moyes an exponent of posession football at all.

But I wouldn't call Martinez one either. He likes wing-play and fast counter attacking more than the tica taca stuff.

Wigan played more long balls than we did last year, for example.

 

[davek]

You're right that our possession is high up the pitch and often our weakness is getting the ball there.

I wouldn't call Moyes an exponent of posession football at all.

But I wouldn't call Martinez one either. He likes wing-play and fast counter attacking more than the tica taca stuff.

Wigan played more long balls than we did last year, for example.

The figures show he's reduced Wigan's long ball game season on season since he's been there. You only have to cast your mind back to his Swansea days - working with a team that wouldn't be outclassed in terms of talent at Championship level - to realise his game is to use a lot of short passing. The way Martinez utilised the likes of Mcmanaman and Moloney shouldn't be overplayed.

 

[Allezfan]

The figures show he's reduced Wigan's long ball game season on season since he's been there. You only have to cast your mind back to his Swansea days - working with a team that wouldn't be outclassed in terms of talent at Championship level - to realise his game is to use a lot of short passing. The way Martinez utilised the likes of Mcmanaman and Moloney shouldn't be overplayed.

Yeah as counter attackers.

If he can get a bit of pace into our counter attacks by playing oviedo and mirallas as wide forwards all the better, we've been awful at counter attacking. Executioners bong proved that our attacks only work when we're dominating posession on the whole.

I'm not anti martinez at all and I fully expect our football to improve under him (we all know this team is capable of less hoofing and less sitting back) but his style is similar enough to ours that I remain unconvinced by the idea of him needing a transitional year.

 

[Goat]

Yeah as counter attackers.

If he can get a bit of pace into our counter attacks by playing oviedo and mirallas as wide forwards all the better, we've been awful at counter attacking. Executioners bong proved that our attacks only work when we're dominating posession on the whole.

I'm not anti martinez at all and I fully expect our football to improve under him (we all know this team is capable of less hoofing and less sitting back) but his style is similar enough to ours that I remain unconvinced by the idea of him needing a transitional year.

Totally agree, I see no reason why he cant hit the ground running.

 

[deipnosophist]

I for one am very excited

I had/have massive respect for DM and wish him well in his new venture (except vs Everton!!). But, it was time for a change. Roberto will be a breath of fresh (stylish)air. CL? unlikely...money buys that. But EL is a definite possibility. But even outside that, it is time we beat Liverpool and Chelsea...that, and a top 7 will do me for his first year.

 

[davek]

I dont know about hitting the ground running. He's going to have to persuade our CBs that their first instinct shouldn't be to pump it long when they get a bit of pressure on them...and for that matter he's going to have to persuade Tim Howard that he's also allowed to roll the ball out to defenders.