Current Affairs Afghanistan

[degsy]

Of course. And if you want to go back further, Britain whipped up the fury of Islamic nationalism in India to try to undermine them having democratic control and freedom from colonialism. Thats a large part of what led to the creation of an Islamic state in that area.

Not strictly true.
At the start of WW2 India wanted full Independence for full cooperation; this was duly promised.
Pre WW2, under British rule the large Muslim Minority had their 'political position' somewhat safeguarded by the british 'divide and rule policy' to keep the multi faceted Hindu Majority arguing amongst themselves and not uniting against the British.
After the war the Muslims did not want a United Independent India, fearing, probably correctly, that without the British to fight their corner they would always get the short and of the stick.
The partition was a Muslim Idea.
The Hindu Indians didnt seem to mind if they were the boss of a Untited India or Boss of an Independent Hindu India
Independence without those pesky muslims = win win.
Only the 'rich Muslims' who could vote (17%?) were the drivers of Partition, the majority of poor Muslims weren't too arsed as whoever was the political boss in Delhi or where ever they would still be at the bottom of the heap.

 

[peteblue]

For those Trump/Boris fanboys blaming Biden, see below. Biden can be blamed for the lack of evacuation planning though, thats all on him.

The important bit being ‘What President Biden has done is uphold a decision made by President Trump’…so Tump cocked it up by making a deal, Biden cocked it up when he could have actually countermanded the deal, Biden cocked up the withdrawal….

 

[tsubaki]

The important bit being ‘What President Biden has done is uphold a decision made by President Trump’…so Tump cocked it up by making a deal, Biden cocked it up when he could have actually countermanded the deal, Biden cocked up the withdrawal….

Not really.

This is a waste of time, but by the point Biden took over there were 2500 US troops in Afghanistan.

Withdrawing from that agreement at a minimum required the troop numbers to be ramped up massively, solely to provide protection to them from the consequences of withdrawing from the agreement )and that’s before you get to start operations again). You would also need the agreement of the then Afghan government for the extra troops and for wrecking the agreement which might not have been forthcoming either.

So just rescinding it wasn’t a realistic proposition. He (and Johnson) should have organised it better, especially in terms of not kicking the ball down the road every time someone mentioned looking after the Afghans employed by NATO and leaving it so late they did what we’ve seen.

 

[JimmyJeffers]

20,000 people over 5 years Pete. What will the 16,000 do that aren't being accepted now? Are they not in danger until we say so?

The Kindertransport managed 10,000 people in 9 months in the middle of a war with the operations handled by volunteers.

Ffs, Raab's father was among them, yet this useless shower of [Poor language removed] are putting such a measly, mealy mouthed offering together. They shame us.

Exactly. What’s wrong with saying ‘we’ll help as much as we can to as many people as we can, and we shall do whatever is necessary’ without putting arbitrary figures on it to keep racist xenophobic members of the public happy.
They always start the question with ‘do you deserve to be here’ it’s completely the wrong way of looking at things. Absolutely no empathy.

 

[Alan Whittle]

Raab feeling the heat today. That’ll be nothing at all to do with Downing Street quietly briefing to move the attention off of Boris will it?

 

[Paulie]

One question, amongst a myriad of questions that need asking should be is it true the troops werent paid for months? Who was aware of this? How has this been allowed to happen, in a country with 2 trillion$ worth of aid? And if we knew, why did we walk away at the moment their troops were not being paid? I mean there are far bigger and more important broader questions to be asked here, but to me this shows a real muddled thinking (and that's me being kind).

I reckon you could have asked any Marine that's worked with the ANA and they'd give many reasons why the ANA would crumble. Watched a documentary earlier and they were awful.

 

[cronullasharks]

I reckon you could have asked any Marine that's worked with the ANA and they'd give many reasons why the ANA would crumble. Watched a documentary earlier and they were awful.

Was that the one where they were sitting around smoking weed and had their helmets on backwards and stuff?

 

[tsubaki]

Raab feeling the heat today. That’ll be nothing at all to do with Downing Street quietly briefing to move the attention off of Boris will it?

see also the Mail today - not one but two articles blaming everyone apart from Johnson

 

[BigMick]

Former CIA Counterterrorism Chief for South and Southwest Asia washes his hands and pins the blame on Trump and Biden.

https://www.justsecurity.org/77801/...an-intelligence-failure-something-much-worse/

 

[peteblue]

Not really.

This is a waste of time, but by the point Biden took over there were 2500 US troops in Afghanistan.

Withdrawing from that agreement at a minimum required the troop numbers to be ramped up massively, solely to provide protection to them from the consequences of withdrawing from the agreement )and that’s before you get to start operations again). You would also need the agreement of the then Afghan government for the extra troops and for wrecking the agreement which might not have been forthcoming either.

So just rescinding it wasn’t a realistic proposition. He (and Johnson) should have organised it better, especially in terms of not kicking the ball down the road every time someone mentioned looking after the Afghans employed by NATO and leaving it so late they did what we’ve seen.

The number of USA troops was somewhat irrelevant. The Afghan‘s had a supposed 300,000 strong fully equipped army, the USA provided backbone and deterrence by its presence and air power. The USA being there also ensured other nations would continue to contribute. Once the USA stated a date and then started drawdown, morale in the ANA dissolved, sneaking out of Bagram at the dead of night pretty well finished it off. Biden could and should have changed Trumps decision and it would not have required a mass influx of American troops…but it’s done now and Afghanistan and it’s people will have to pick up the pieces…….

 

[Noisy noise annoys]

Not really.

This is a waste of time, but by the point Biden took over there were 2500 US troops in Afghanistan.

Withdrawing from that agreement at a minimum required the troop numbers to be ramped up massively, solely to provide protection to them from the consequences of withdrawing from the agreement )and that’s before you get to start operations again). You would also need the agreement of the then Afghan government for the extra troops and for wrecking the agreement which might not have been forthcoming either.

So just rescinding it wasn’t a realistic proposition. He (and Johnson) should have organised it better, especially in terms of not kicking the ball down the road every time someone mentioned looking after the Afghans employed by NATO and leaving it so late they did what we’ve seen.

Yep

 

[peteblue]

Former CIA Counterterrorism Chief for South and Southwest Asia washes his hands and pins the blame on Trump and Biden.

https://www.justsecurity.org/77801/...an-intelligence-failure-something-much-worse/

Excellent article….

 

[peteblue]

Yep

I think he was referring to you…

 

[Paulie]

Was that the one where they were sitting around smoking weed and had their helmets on backwards and stuff?

Yeah someone put it up earlier. Police searching for landmines and falling asleep off their heads on opium. Later on talking about young boys being raped by the police commanders, really grim stuff.

Like they talk about intelligence when they make these decisions to pull out, what actually is it because it is bloody awful whatever info they've used, unless they knew full well they'd collapse and don't care.

 

[tsubaki]

The number of USA troops was somewhat irrelevant. The Afghan‘s had a supposed 300,000 strong fully equipped army, the USA provided backbone and deterrence by its presence and air power. The USA being there also ensured other nations would continue to contribute. Once the USA stated a date and then started drawdown, morale in the ANA dissolved, sneaking out of Bagram at the dead of night pretty well finished it off. Biden could and should have changed Trumps decision and it would not have required a mass influx of American troops…but it’s done now and Afghanistan and it’s people will have to pick up the pieces…….

It’s not irrelevant though - the “fully equipped army” doesn’t seem to have existed, nor would Biden (or Trump) have ever have let it look after the troops in country when the Taliban would have been properly going after them.