Current Affairs Afghanistan

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Humanitarian concerns not with standing, my cynical head thinks it's a good job there's no oil there or We'd be on 3quid a litre by now.
There are plenty of rare earth minerals though. The stuff all your fancy electronic gadgets are made of.

Amazing how the Taliban are all rocking around with the latest military hardware. M4 assault rifles with ACOG scopes and night vision goggles. It's almost as if the US gifted them. We haven't seen this before. ISIS driving round in spanking new Toyota pick ups and Humvees.
 
The reparations to the government if Afghanistan, i.e. The Taliban, the government and the Taliban are one and the same now and any nonsense about them not reaching the Taliban is just sheer lunacy - i.e. right up the hard left's street.

The truth is Biden's unilateral withdrawal was a complete meltdown of a plan and absolute disaster. Being a senile 99 years old he somehow thought the Taliban would meet a rejuvenated srmy - one more than pleased to fight on after the rug had been pulled, foreign troops withdrawn, which let's face it is primarily US troops, having air support withdrawn, not having been paid for months by a corrupt Kabul former government and crucially with their morale rock bottom - or I suppose in Bidens terms - an A1 fighting force - it would be laughable if he actually didn't think this

An army needs good morale like a human needs oxygen without it it will swiftly be overcome, As Singapore in the WW2 gives a lesson on how a defeated army of numbers can be surrounded by a far more zealous and motivated fighting force.

To noone's real surprise The Taliban overcame a dispirited and bedraggled army, one in total disarray in a matter of days, not the 18 months or so Biden laughably and ludicrously thought, it was primarily a fiasco of his own making.

In his speech he was busy blaming everyone but himself, avoiding mentioning the total fiasco and the predictable and quickly victorious resurgent snd triumphant Taliban. He pointedly refusing to take any questions at all, one wonders whether the man would have been able to answer any anyway,, so an understandable avoidance strategy. He stuck to the popular line that the war is over for America which would get him all the brownie points at home, while avoiding the disastrous decision to withdraw virtually overnight leaving total mayhem and a murderous Taliban in charge. He despicably for an American president accused the Afghans of cowardice and not wanting to fight, without mentioning the heavy casualty toll of thousands of frontline Afhgan soldiers in the last 18 months while the US army stayed away from the front line suffering zero casualties. He was talking about a civil war when there hadn't been one recently, but there certainly was one after his intervention, and now will likely be thousands of women condemned to live as virtual chattals. Biden is just stupid enough to listen to The Taliban and might carry on believing their official propogsnda while Hell burns

The man's name will go down in infamy for what he's done, but with an election years away why should he care, he'll probably die before then and he can do what he likes. His presidency has been an unmitigated disaster and it's only been going five minutes.

Yes good post and a lot I agree with. I'll deal with each section independently of one another.

The above paragraph is a nore nuanced and fairer portrayal of what Burgon said. In fairness it was reported by certain right wing websites as he had said he would give reparations to the Taliban. Of course, he made no such promise. He spoke of reparations and support, but clearly and deliberately did not mention the Taliban. Of course there is a reasonable argument (as you have said) that it would inevitably end up with the Taliban. However that is slightly different from making out his position, or the left's position is to hand money to the Taliban, but rather the Afgani people. (As a slight aside, I wouldn't have used the word reparation in the above context).

Now for the nuance. The glib reality, we will already be giving the Taliban money and having conversations about more money. These will not be far left people doing it, but right wing people in government. It's already happening mate.

What I find curious about the UK, is that we do one thing and then almost over compensate to the other degree to prove we are not. I think the official British line is that bo communication was had with Sinn Fein/IRA when it was. You have had top diplomats now acknowledge they essentially promised a free Ireland to them. There is similar here. I think the lack of nuance, from our right wing press really damages our role and judgement on the world stage. We seem to continually want to keep a certain caricatured Britishness up.

Discussions now should be had about giving money to Afganistan as well. Partially because behind closed doors they are happening already, partially because it's the right thing to do (and will save a lot in the long run). Without going into enormous detail, most of Afganistan want peace and investment and were very supportive of the invasion initially for the above hope. The Taliban are not stupid and know people want peace and investment. They are busy trying to get finance from the US on exchange for no terrorism. If we can provide funding, we also have some leverage, and can hopefully use it to argue for a minimum standards on womens rights/access to education and for peace. My concern is we will get bogged down via a combination of no terrorism and control of borders.

It would also be a smart geo-political move. Unfortunately our approach to diplomacy seems to be dominated in this country by the hegemony of a handful of elite schools skewed analysis of WW2 as a continuation of Waterloo narrative. That you can only win respect or influence with the "never never never" approach. In my experience this is just untrue. If you create a financial dependency, both for the Taliban but also the populace you call the shots. The Taliban will accept in the short term as they are seeking big initial wins to cement a precarious position. If we dont offer it, Russia and China will. This discussion has to be had in the political classes without unhelpful distortions of what this means (that it's not about handing the Taliban money).

I've gone on too much so wont go into enormous detail on Bide other than to say I disagree. All I would say is he was dealt an awful hand, initially by Trump agreeing deals with the Taliban and agreeing to leave and secondly the broader picture-that it was a war America were losing. However he played it badly.

I thought his comment about people not wanting to die so why should they a bit chilling. Women and girls in particular are going to die now. That is now very much on the conscience of our government and Bidens administration. 5000 people a year is an insultingly low offer.

I also found his comment about not being interested in nation building, peace keeping or counter insurgency, but merely counter terrorism very alarming. I could go on, but let's leave it there for now.
 
There are plenty of rare earth minerals though. The stuff all your fancy electronic gadgets are made of.

Amazing how the Taliban are all rocking around with the latest military hardware. M4 assault rifles with ACOG scopes and night vision goggles. It's almost as if the US gifted them. We haven't seen this before. ISIS driving round in spanking new Toyota pick ups and Humvees.

We know the US armed "moderate" Sunni groups in Syria/Iraq and Libya to try to topple leaders they didn't like. Many of these "moderate" groups would be more hardline than the Taliban.
 
The Taliban were under control. Neither the US nor U.K. were undertaking offensive actions, military deaths were non existent for 18 months. The Allies, of which there were actually very few, merely provided the backbone and air support to the Afghan army (who were taking any hits). As has been said, there were as many US military in Spain as in Afghanistan. It was a nonsense to pull them out…..

I mean we will have to discuss what "under control" meant. The Taliban were advancing, and had control is large swathes of the country. In truth, geographically speaking they had control of the majority of the country. That was not the case in tbe early 00s. They have had to push the occupying forces out to do this.

At some point, they would have marched on the urban centres, which are the islands of control the occupying forced had. I think Trump and then Biden have made the pragmatic choice, it's better they do so after America has left, so there can at least be some effort to try and spin it as something other than a defeat. Suffice to say, I think that has badly backfired (no pun intended).

One question, amongst a myriad of questions that need asking should be is it true the troops werent paid for months? Who was aware of this? How has this been allowed to happen, in a country with 2 trillion$ worth of aid? And if we knew, why did we walk away at the moment their troops were not being paid? I mean there are far bigger and more important broader questions to be asked here, but to me this shows a real muddled thinking (and that's me being kind).
 
We know the US armed "moderate" Sunni groups in Syria/Iraq and Libya to try to topple leaders they didn't like. Many of these "moderate" groups would be more hardline than the Taliban.
With Afghanistan you have to talk about Pakistan. Pakistan provides troops and training to the Taliban and have done so since day 1. America knows this, Britain knows this. America and Britain provide military aid to Pakistan and have done so from day 1.

It's an utterly farce.
 
Even in the intellectually average little pond that I was swimming in back then (nothing changes) the phrases...
'It'll all end in tears' & 'Here we go, Vietnam Mk II' were bandied about.

However reductive we find such phrases, they have been completely born out though havent they?

This will end in tragedy and it has proven again that you cant win a Guerilla war without serious attempts made to engage the population on their level, not impose your own value system.

The real fools in all this seem to be those suggesting this mission was ever going to work out well. It hasnt.
 
With Afghanistan you have to talk about Pakistan. Pakistan provides troops and training to the Taliban and have done so since day 1. America knows this, Britain knows this. America and Britain provide military aid to Pakistan and have done so from day 1.

It's an utterly farce.

Of course. And if you want to go back further, Britain whipped up the fury of Islamic nationalism in India to try to undermine them having democratic control and freedom from colonialism. Thats a large part of what led to the creation of an Islamic state in that area.
 
However reductive we find such phrases, they have been completely born out though havent they?

This will end in tragedy and it has proven again that you cant win a Guerilla war without serious attempts made to engage the population on their level, not impose your own value system.

The real fools in all this seem to be those suggesting this mission was ever going to work out well. It hasnt.
Who says the stated mission was ever the actual intentions. Some people made absolute bank for the last 20 years. That's mission success for them.
 
While you are slagging off the U.K. , you may wish to reflect upon the current approach from your mates across the EU……

But Pete, we do deserve to be slagged off. This government, like Joe Biden has inherited a difficult set of circumstances, but has played them woefully.

I sort of see being a voter as being akin to being a shareholder in a business and the government are the board/senior management. You can surely acknowledge, being on holiday, when probably the biggest foreign policy decision in a generation is being taken, and not coming back, is extremely poor practice. It also reflects badly on the whole government. Who has signed this off? Why has there been no apology?

I saw Alistair Campbell a while back say none of this cabinet would be asked to carry the bags of the Thatcher administration. I thought it was a very fair point. They seem like completely amateurs to me. It's one thing being ideologically opposed, but its another seeing people who just seem to lack competency and professionalism.
 
Who says the stated mission was ever the actual intentions. Some people made absolute bank for the last 20 years. That's mission success for them.

Yes all fair. Lots of people have won from this. But that was never the explicit aims of the war. The aim of the war was to depose the Taliban and combat Sunni extremism. We will now be in a worse place than we were 20 years ago on both counts.

Of course people have won, but in the broad picture it seems to have gone disastrously.
 
But Pete, we do deserve to be slagged off. This government, like Joe Biden has inherited a difficult set of circumstances, but has played them woefully.

I sort of see being a voter as being akin to being a shareholder in a business and the government are the board/senior management. You can surely acknowledge, being on holiday, when probably the biggest foreign policy decision in a generation is being taken, and not coming back, is extremely poor practice. It also reflects badly on the whole government. Who has signed this off? Why has there been no apology?

I saw Alistair Campbell a while back say none of this cabinet would be asked to carry the bags of the Thatcher administration. I thought it was a very fair point. They seem like completely amateurs to me. It's one thing being ideologically opposed, but its another seeing people who just seem to lack competency and professionalism.

I have been saying similar for years. I do not rate our politicians whom I have previously referred to as ‘pygmies’ with no offence meant to actual pygmies…..
 

I don't think anyone is coming out of this well. We've "taken back control" in order to be fully accountable for our own actions though, so I'm holding our own government to account rather than passing the blame onto others. Isn't that what you wanted?

Thats fine then. They said they would take 20,000…..
 
I have been saying similar for years. I do not rate our politicians whom I have previously referred to as ‘pygmies’ with no offence meant to actual pygmies…..

Yes. I mean there are probably better phrases to use, but I get the meaning!

Even yesterday, Therea May, who I would characterise as a competent mid ranking manager was just scoring points off the government. What's happening is not good enough. What worries me is Johnson exemplifies this culture that it's one big joke and you dont have to take it seriously. The PM sets the standards and with him, it's a question of what standards are set.
 
At his age he's doing well to get elected for 1 term - after this forget a 2nd though.

It is...and yet it isn't...a long way to 2024, I feel MacMillans 'Events dear boy, Events' reputed quote, will figure large in the next 3 yrs.
But none the less, if Both Parties can't find a decent candidate, Trump will re-Invent himself right back in.

Unfortunately this is what will happen…
 
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