Academy Failure?

[toffee-L]

Our young players that come through all just seem so tactically unaware that you do wonder whether they experience consistent coaching during their development. Davies and Dowell never really had set positions when they came into the team, Davies always seemed like a spare midfielder because he couldn't really excel either in an attacking or defensive role whilst Dowell just seemed to get shoehorned into any position across the front line. Kenny was a headless chicken when he came into the team too and there probably hasn't been a better (well, worse actually) example of a tactically clueless player than Ross Barkley in recent times.

It just seems that our young players just aren't receiving good enough coaching that allows them to come into premier league matches and adapt to their surroundings. Despite comfortably bettering the achievements of Liverpool's u23s in recent years, does anyone seriously expect that we could have done what they did against us in the cup and field a team nearly made up entirely of youth players and win? Would never happen.

 

[degsy]

Just heard this on BT Sport from Jake Humphrey and Joe Cole;

"2 players in 5 years from the academy have got in this team. That's dreadful from a club in this city. It stinks of short term planning"

Two things then, is this correct?

And given the success of the academy in winning their leagues etc, what's going wrong?

Isn't this part of Brands remit - a ground up rebuild.
Rumours of changes for next season.

I think you have to have an Academy, but its only as good as the kids they put in it - and I think thats the problem.
What are they looking for and would they know it if they saw it.
I know from past personal experience that Everton, all things being equal, will alway pick big lads over small lads.
Yes your Osmans get in, but how many potential 5ft 6in david villas dont.

#billy gilmour.

How many local european cup winners like Withe Mortimer do we miss for having wrong selection parameters

 

[Tin-Tin]

Unsworth goes on about heart and character but its not Sunday League, there has to be talent too.

Rooney was a complete one off, would have been the same player if he come through bloody Rotherhams academy.

Barkley never developed once the tiny kids were replaced by men.

Dowell is pure powder puff and slow. Gordon looks like he has a bit about him but again, not very quick. Davies is too slow and weak and Kenny is all heart but lacks quality.

The next bunch look absolutely woeful. Im hoping the current 14-15 year olds have a lot more quality.

 

[Tin-Tin]

Just heard this on BT Sport from Jake Humphrey and Joe Cole;

"2 players in 5 years from the academy have got in this team. That's dreadful from a club in this city. It stinks of short term planning"

Two things then, is this correct?

And given the success of the academy in winning their leagues etc, what's going wrong?

This winning the PL2 league business is annoying now. No point winning it every year if the players cant make the next step.

A lot of the top clubs either have their best youngstes in and around the 1st team or out on loan playing in good leagues. Ours either get stuck in u23's or get sent out and deemed not good enough for some crap Scottish team (Adedoyin). The level of our loans is terrible compared to others too.

 

[Papa Shango]

Our young players that come through all just seem so tactically unaware that you do wonder whether they experience consistent coaching during their development. Davies and Dowell never really had set positions when they came into the team, Davies always seemed like a spare midfielder because he couldn't really excel either in an attacking or defensive role whilst Dowell just seemed to get shoehorned into any position across the front line. Kenny was a headless chicken when he came into the team too and there probably hasn't been a better (well, worse actually) example of a tactically clueless player than Ross Barkley in recent times.

It just seems that our young players just aren't receiving good enough coaching that allows them to come into premier league matches and adapt to their surroundings. Despite comfortably bettering the achievements of Liverpool's u23s in recent years, does anyone seriously expect that we could have done what they did against us in the cup and field a team nearly made up entirely of youth players and win? Would never happen.

The derby result was totally down to us. Another club of a similar standard as us would have swatted them away with ease.

 

[Papa Shango]

This winning the PL2 league business is annoying now. No point winning it every year if the players cant make the next step.

A lot of the top clubs either have their best youngstes in and around the 1st team or out on loan playing in good leagues. Ours either get stuck in u23's or get sent out and deemed not good enough for some crap Scottish team (Adedoyin). The level of our loans is terrible compared to others too.

Our best youngsters are Mason Holgate, Calvert Lewin, Kean and Richarlison (and Davies I guess). All first teamers.

I cant believe we are being conned by this narrative. We have youth right through the spine of our first team.

 

[Bluestar]

Our best youngsters are Mason Holgate, Calvert Lewin, Kean and Richarlison (and Davies I guess). All first teamers.

I cant believe we are being conned by this narrative. We have youth right through the spine of our first team.

I think rhe point is that Davies apart, all the others were purchased. None of the players developed in the academy from young are coming through.

 

[Papa Shango]

I think rhe point is that Davies apart, all the others were purchased. None of the players developed in the academy from young are coming through.

You could say that about most clubs academies though. Regardless of if we paid a small fee for them in the case of DCL and Holgate they are essentially youth players we have nurtured and improved.

An awful lot of our academy have gone on to make careers elsewhere, some take a little bit longer to shine which less face it is something that we do not give them not just as a club but as a fan base.

Our academy is on par with most other top flight clubs.

 

[Tin-Tin]

Our best youngsters are Mason Holgate, Calvert Lewin, Kean and Richarlison (and Davies I guess). All first teamers.

I cant believe we are being conned by this narrative. We have youth right through the spine of our first team.

Well if we just buy young players for the first team and U23's when we need them why spend millions on an academy? The money is spent to coach and produce players for over 13 years, ready for the first team.

Thats not happening.

 

[blueblue]

Our best youngsters are Mason Holgate, Calvert Lewin, Kean and Richarlison (and Davies I guess). All first teamers.

I cant believe we are being conned by this narrative. We have youth right through the spine of our first team.

Kenny as well

 

[Charles Hawtrey]

If you get 1 or 2 players from the academy every year or two then that saves you having to buy those players. The outlay for buying them in today's market is probably 20-30M each so even with a seemingly low output the academy pays for itself.

 

[Cameron Manning]

This winning the PL2 league business is annoying now. No point winning it every year if the players cant make the next step.

A lot of the top clubs either have their best youngstes in and around the 1st team or out on loan playing in good leagues. Ours either get stuck in u23's or get sent out and deemed not good enough for some crap Scottish team (Adedoyin). The level of our loans is terrible compared to others too.

I went to the final when the U23’s won the cup last season, it was a very boring game with Everton hanging on in the last fifteen minutes to a one goal lead, I was praying that Newcastle wouldn’t equalise, not so much that we would win the cup, more so that I wouldn’t have to stay for extra time, doubt if I would have stayed if Newcastle had scored, and I think there were quite a few fans who were of the same thinking.

 

[mikel_88]

Need to get more loan moves for the u23 some stayed to long and havent progressed

 

[Tin-Tin]

Maybe the idea should be to pay top wages to academy coaches in order to employ the best around. Surely paying 5-6 coaches £100k + is cheaper than having to pay lower leagues £10-15mill min per player.

 

[Papa Shango]

Well if we just buy young players for the first team and U23's when we need them why spend millions on an academy? The money is spent to coach and produce players for over 13 years, ready for the first team.

Thats not happening.

We are no better or worse than any other team at it, that's what I am saying. Other clubs do exactly the same and the success rate of players who come through who have been at a club their whole life is minimal. We have loads of players playing at other clubs who we brought up again like the other clubs.