Academy Failure?

[zzr45]

If you get 1 or 2 players from the academy every year or two then that saves you having to buy those players. The outlay for buying them in today's market is probably 20-30M each so even with a seemingly low output the academy pays for itself.

Your idea of how much it costs to run an academy is well short of the mark.

 

[Tin-Tin]

We are no better or worse than any other team at it, that's what I am saying. Other clubs do exactly the same and the success rate of players who come through who have been at a club their whole life is minimal. We have loads of players playing at other clubs who we brought up again like the other clubs.

Thats not the point though. The question was asked about the academy being a failure and the simple answer is yes.

Takibg a player from another club at 15/16 is different than bringing them through.

 

[Mathieubleucoyb]

Our best youngsters are Mason Holgate, Calvert Lewin, Kean and Richarlison (and Davies I guess). All first teamers.

I cant believe we are being conned by this narrative. We have youth right through the spine of our first team.

Davies doesn’t belong here

 

[Charles Hawtrey]

Your idea of how much it costs to run an academy is well short of the mark.

you are correct sir I have absolutely no clue how much it costs to run the academy. Does anyone know this from their extensive knowledge of EFC accounts? it would be interesting to know.

 

[Papa Shango]

Thats not the point though. The question was asked about the academy being a failure and the simple answer is yes.

Takibg a player from another club at 15/16 is different than bringing them through.

The result is the same.

You can only do so much, if the players are not quite good enough then they are not quite good enough and they go elsewhere to prove themselves.

We are deeming it a failure by comparing our set up to other clubs but then not looking closely at what happens at other clubs. It would be nice if we could bring through a whole team of youth academy players but that rarely if ever happens.

 

[Brisan123]

Maybe the idea should be to pay top wages to academy coaches in order to employ the best around. Surely paying 5-6 coaches £100k + is cheaper than having to pay lower leagues £10-15mill min per player.

This I would have thought would have been Brands first tasks when he assessed the academy

 

[Tin-Tin]

The result is the same.

You can only do so much, if the players are not quite good enough then they are not quite good enough and they go elsewhere to prove themselves.

We are deeming it a failure by comparing our set up to other clubs but then not looking closely at what happens at other clubs. It would be nice if we could bring through a whole team of youth academy players but that rarely if ever happens.

Someone would have to do a detailed look at what players come through who's academy in the last 5-6 years and do a comparison. You would probably end up with a lot of lower league clubs coming out on top I assume.

 

[zzr45]

you are correct sir I have absolutely no clue how much it costs to run the academy. Does anyone know this from their extensive knowledge of EFC accounts? it would be interesting to know.

I know in the sport I coach, the academy costs about £2 million a year. There's nowhere near the same level of depth that most professional football clubs will have (every coach from u17s down is volunteer, there's no scouting department or specialist medical staff, analyst teams.) Players aren't paid either until the age of 18 and the club doesn't pay any school fees. Compare that to clubs that are paying school fees (often after they have left the club too) and wages for players, suddenly the figures go up and up.

 

[monty]

Why pick on the coaches running the junior teams, each of them are subject to being overseen by others within the club with far more seniority such as the incumbant manager, Picking on Unsworth is a simplistic reaction to an in depth, in grained, deep rooted fault line within the club. Because of success across the park strings of young Blues signed with them rather than the club they supported, Rush, Carragher, Macca and many others. This is basically why we are forced to seek out talent elsewhere. However, the basic route for any player to first team play is their ability to preform in a given position. Surely the simplest way to assess these kids is ensuring that each team representing EFC at all levels play to the identical systems used by the senior team so players can be rated for how they play within that system. Liverpool use a similar method to bring players through and it works for them. It would certainly be beneficial for us fans to go easy on the kids, a dispirited player is of no use to anyone.
I'll be happy when this European dream is put away for another season thus giving Ancelotti to utilise some kids with a view to the future.

 

[cronullasharks]

Why pick on the coaches running the junior teams, each of them are subject to being overseen by others within the club with far more seniority such as the incumbant manager, Picking on Unsworth is a simplistic reaction to an in depth, in grained, deep rooted fault line within the club. Because of success across the park strings of young Blues signed with them rather than the club they supported, Rush, Carragher, Macca and many others. This is basically why we are forced to seek out talent elsewhere. However, the basic route for any player to first team play is their ability to preform in a given position. Surely the simplest way to assess these kids is ensuring that each team representing EFC at all levels play to the identical systems used by the senior team so players can be rated for how they play within that system. Liverpool use a similar method to bring players through and it works for them. It would certainly be beneficial for us fans to go easy on the kids, a dispirited player is of no use to anyone.
I'll be happy when this European dream is put away for another season thus giving Ancelotti to utilise some kids with a view to the future.

This is a decent point however the first team doesn't really seem to have much of a style or identity they play or for the youth teams to emulate

 

[Kenshin]

Something to consider.

The best academies over the past 30 years have all been one club cities. So the pool for local players is quite large. Southampton being an example of this , churning out quite a few players .

Compared to Everton , we have 3 club's to go to in the area and another 2 not too far away. So it's much harder to sign good young players as they have multiple choices and still stay at home.

Plus over the past 15 years , money has become much more of an element with the best academies filled with less of the best local talent and more of young kids actually bought from elsewhere.

In short, if we were the only option we could have developed Gerrard , carragher , Owen , Fowler to make a few . Liverpool got them instead so it appears our academy is poor when in fact , we just aren't attracting them at a young age

 

[JobForTheMoyes]

Doesn’t necessarily mean the academy is failing. The key input is the players. Seems like less kids want to play the game nowadays. Add in the fact that Man City and the other big clubs are hoovering up the best youth from all over and we are bound to struggle.

 

[JobForTheMoyes]

This is a decent point however the first team doesn't really seem to have much of a style or identity they play or for the youth teams to emulate

Too much stock is put in this. Styles and tactics are in a constant state of flux. What the club should be doing is developing well rounded professionals capable of playing in a number of styles. That will help them when they start playing at a higher level. Focusing on winning trophies, etc at that level is not necessarily the best way to go.

Likewise, bringing youngsters through a too-rigid system will not benefit the players in the long run. Even positions should but he set in stone, for that only central defender may end up working better as a target man once he develops.

 

[monty]

This is a decent point however the first team doesn't really seem to have much of a style or identity they play or for the youth teams to emulate

Lets face it 4 4 2 has been the flavour of the month since Duncan's term and under Carlo. Prior to that I don't believe the players had a clue as to what shape was expected for any match and more often than any plan was forgotten as team shape disintegrated.

 

[monty]

Too much stock is put in this. Styles and tactics are in a constant state of flux. What the club should be doing is developing well rounded professionals capable of playing in a number of styles. That will help them when they start playing at a higher level. Focusing on winning trophies, etc at that level is not necessarily the best way to go.

Likewise, bringing youngsters through a too-rigid system will not benefit the players in the long run. Even positions should but he set in stone, for that only central defender may end up working better as a target man once he develops.

Your suggestion merely echoes what the club has done for years hence it does not, nor cannot, work as proven by our lamentable failure to provide the team with home grown talent.
Obviously if a trainer sees a talent that might be suited to a different position he will change that position but the player concerned should be told clearly that such positional changes are few.
I also think that in most cases a future star is apparent at an early stage, such players should get time on the first team bench.
One oddity has occurred to me who was the last home grown keeper we've produced, is it Andy Rankin all those years ago?