A Fresh Start For Each And All?

SerenityNigh · October 23, 2017

Cels said:
Now that RK has gone, are the players that have taken so much stick of late going to be given a "do-over", and a bit of leeway, by our fans, and a chance to prove themselves under the new manager (whomever it may be)? Or will it still be a case of getting on their backs at the first sign of a mistake etc.?

I am absolutely behind this, unless of course you mean Cuco.

Osamabindiesel · October 23, 2017

Eggsyblueskin said:
I agree you usually get the bounce back effect for a month or two , but when it eventually settles back you can end up with exactly the same problems and in our case it would occur with half the season still to play. Concerning times, I feel.
Much depends on the quality of the manager we appoint. I’ve got my hopes pinned on Thomas Tuchel, personally.

He is one I wouldn't be upset with. We need to go for an ambitious/adventurous manager. I'd be very unhappy if we hired someone that cowers in away fixtures.

SerenityNigh · October 23, 2017

Eggsyblueskin said:
If we weren’t really, really bad we wouldn’t have have sacked our manager 9 games into a new season.

Stoke, West Ham, Swansea, and Bournemouth all sit within 1 point of Everton on the table. Only Stoke out of that list is not "really, really bad." None of these have sacked their manager, although that's likely at some point for any of these.

But still, Koeman was sacked because the team were playing "really, really bad" and performing "really, really bad" compared to expectations. But this team is no more "really, really bad" than Chelsea were in 15/16.

Eggsyblueskin · October 23, 2017

SerenityNigh said:
Stoke, West Ham, Swansea, and Bournemouth all sit within 1 point of Everton on the table. Only Stoke out of that list is not "really, really bad." None of these have sacked their manager, although that's likely at some point for any of these.

But still, Koeman was sacked because the team were playing "really, really bad" and performing "really, really bad" compared to expectations. But this team is no more "really, really bad" than Chelsea were in 15/16.

Remains to be seen really. This is Koemans team , he built it and couldn’t get it going, the idea that any other manager can come in and immediately it will improve I find unlikely. This team will require hard work and an experienced manager to get it going.
It’s going to be a long hard season I reckon.

SerenityNigh · October 23, 2017

Eggsyblueskin said:
Remains to be seen really. This is Koemans team , he built it and couldn’t get it going, the idea that any other manager can come in and immediately it will improve I find unlikely. This team will require hard work and an experienced manager to get it going.
It’s going to be a long hard season I reckon.

Surely losing Bolasie and Coleman hurt, but all we've seen depart are Deulofeu (who didn't feature for Koeman), Barry, Cleverly, and Lukaku. Romelu is hard to replace, but it's not like many teams above Everton in the table have players of this sort. This squad is twice as deep (while still having many deficiencies) as it was about 12 months ago, and I expect a top-half finish when the new manager gets in a the players kick on.

Tennessee Blue Mike · October 23, 2017

I needed the change as I was stressing out every game. My belief was in the gutter. We have good players now lets get it sorted.

Barnfred 55 · October 23, 2017

Eggsyblueskin said:
If we weren’t really, really bad we wouldn’t have have sacked our manager 9 games into a new season.

The flip side to that argument is that, if the players in the squad are really really that bad (as in relegation quality bad) then the manager wasn't actually underperforming, and therefore shouldn't have been sacked.

Eggsyblueskin · October 23, 2017

SerenityNigh said:
Surely losing Bolasie and Coleman hurt, but all we've seen depart are Deulofeu (who didn't feature for Koeman), Barry, Cleverly, and Lukaku. Romelu is hard to replace, but it's not like many teams above Everton in the table have players of this sort. This squad is twice as deep (while still having many deficiencies) as it was about 12 months ago, and I expect a top-half finish when the new manager gets in a the players kick on.

Much depends on who we appoint, but I fear you may be disappointed , this season at least.

Barnfred 55 said:
The flip side to that argument is that, if the players in the squad are really really that bad (as in relegation quality bad) then the manager wasn't actually underperforming, and therefore shouldn't have been sacked.

Well, yes up to a point. However he assembled them and coached them, so ultimately he carries the can for their failings.

Gladystweet · October 23, 2017

I'm only going to boo at half volume from now on.

Barnfred 55 · October 23, 2017

SerenityNigh said:
Surely losing Bolasie and Coleman hurt, but all we've seen depart are Deulofeu (who didn't feature for Koeman), Barry, Cleverly, and Lukaku. Romelu is hard to replace, but it's not like many teams above Everton in the table have players of this sort. This squad is twice as deep (while still having many deficiencies) as it was about 12 months ago, and I expect a top-half finish when the new manager gets in a the players kick on.

I still think we'll come 7th. But further away from the top 6 than we were last season.

I'm now looking forward to season 2018/19 when we have a new star striker on board, plus a new left back and centre back. Seamus and Bolasie will be back flying. Our new players will have settled in and our younger players will have another years experience under their belt. We just need a manager that can knit all that together.

Lanolin · October 23, 2017

SerenityNigh said:
Stoke, West Ham, Swansea, and Bournemouth all sit within 1 point of Everton on the table. Only Stoke out of that list is not "really, really bad." None of these have sacked their manager, although that's likely at some point for any of these.

But still, Koeman was sacked because the team were playing "really, really bad" and performing "really, really bad" compared to expectations. But this team is no more "really, really bad" than Chelsea were in 15/16.

I'm not sure that's quite right. Chelsea won the league in 2015 and 2017 so 2016 was clearly just an anomaly. We finished 7th and have lost one, possibly two of our best players since then. There is a genuine chance that we are actually 'really really bad'.

Khalekan · October 23, 2017

Cels said:
Now that RK has gone, are the players that have taken so much stick of late going to be given a "do-over", and a bit of leeway, by our fans, and a chance to prove themselves under the new manager (whomever it may be)? Or will it still be a case of getting on their backs at the first sign of a mistake etc.?

I like this idea

But......can we pass on Cuco :blush:

SerenityNigh · October 23, 2017

Khalekan said:
I like this idea

But......can we pass on Cuco

Given what I've seen so far you can pass, cross, or do anything else you want on Cuco. Not like he's arsed to stop you coming through him.

Barnfred 55 · October 23, 2017

Eggsyblueskin said:
Much depends on who we appoint, but I fear you may be disappointed , this season at least.

Well, yes up to a point. However he assembled them and coached them, so ultimately he carries the can for their failings.

I don't think our players are relegation quality. Expectations were high for Everton at the start of the season and not just from our own fans. The truth is that over 16 games we have probably only put together 2x45mins of decent football, and that has to be put down to the manager.

I'm hoping a new manager will get a reaction from them. I don't expect to pull up trees for the rest of this season but I do believe that, as we acted quickly by our standards, we could still come 7th this season, albeit miles behind those above us. It wont take much improvement to take us comfortably clear of relegation and the run of league games coming up is a lot easier than those we have played already (the top 5 teams).

Eggsyblueskin · October 23, 2017

Barnfred 55 said:
I don't think our players are relegation quality. Expectations were high for Everton at the start of the season and not just from our own fans. The truth is that over 16 games we have probably only put together 2x45mins of decent football, and that has to be put down to the manager.

I'm hoping a new manager will get a reaction from them. I don't expect to pull up trees for the rest of this season but I do believe that, as we acted quickly by our standards, we could still come 7th this season, albeit miles behind those above us. It wont take much improvement to take us comfortably clear of relegation and the run of league games coming up is a lot easier than those we have played already (the top 5 teams).

Until we know who the new manager will be, it’s hard for me to be as hopeful as your good self. Right now we are in upheaval and that is not a good place to be and will last sometime yet even beyond the managerial appointment. We have seen teams before sack managers early on only to sack again and still get relegated. Teams with good players do go down.
The issue here is not the quality of the players but their ability to play together. That is where Koeman failed and it is the nettle the next manager must grasp.
Worrying times.