A concern about Martinez's approach

[D410]

I reckon we'll have an alright first season with some real highlights where we tonk teams littered with meh defeats.

He'll receive goodwill from most but second season is whee he'll be judged as he will have had time to implement his style accordingly. You can't fool the Goodison crowd though so if its not leading to anywhere then he'll soon know.

Everton's the team that plays beautiful football but they won't be blinded by tiki taka guff if its not getting result like them beauts across the park.

this ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

 

[By god I'm blue]

Peach of a post.

It is a good post, but as he says, "a good manager gets the maximum out of what he has at his disposal".

He is now managing Everton, who have a decent squad that was good enough to just miss out on a European spot last season, which also boasts some top talent with excellent technique such as Mirallas, Osman, Baines, Peinaar, the new spanish kid and Gibson (not including Fellaini as it looks like he is gone).

I don't see that as a risk at all, more of a necessary! Good players need to be allowed to play.

For years we have heard off everyone how 1 dimensional we are, playing a high tempo game (more so in the second half) under Moyes, with a pretty rigid formation which very rarely changed.

It's only a risk IMO if you have bad players who cannot play that way. Everton have players more than capable of doing this.

Baines himself has gone on record saying how much he was looking forward to the different style of football under Martinez. I think that tells you all you need to know.

 

[dannyboy]

It is a good post, but as he says, "a good manager gets the maximum out of what he has at his disposal".

He is now managing Everton, who have a decent squad that was good enough to just miss out on a European spot last season, which also boasts some top talent with excellent technique such as Mirallas, Osman, Baines, Peinaar, the new spanish kid and Gibson (not including Fellaini as it looks like he is gone).

I don't see that as a risk at all, more of a necessary! Good players need to be allowed to play.

For years we have heard off everyone how 1 dimensional we are, playing a high tempo game (more so in the second half) under Moyes, with a pretty rigid formation which very rarely changed.

It's only a risk IMO if you have bad players who cannot play that way. Everton have players more than capable of doing this.

Baines himself has gone on record saying how much he was looking forward to the different style of football under Martinez. I think that tells you all you need to know.

I think it remains to be seen whether we have the players capable of what Martinez is looking for. We've tried to implement a possession game before and it was painful to watch.

I swear people go on like we had Stoke-esque tactics under Moyes. This style that Martinez aspires to achieve, is it really any better on the eye than how we started last season? For me that's how you play football. Very much in the same vein as United sides over the past 20 years, direct and with a big emphasis on creating chances. Watching us awkwardly play the ball round in our own half isn't how I want to be spending Saturday afternoons this year.

 

[D410]

I think it remains to be seen whether we have the players capable of what Martinez is looking for. We've tried to implement a possession game before and it was painful to watch.

I swear people go on like we had Stoke-esque tactics under Moyes. This style that Martinez aspires to achieve, is it really any better on the eye than how we started last season? For me that's how you play football. Very much in the same vein as United sides over the past 20 years, direct and with a big emphasis on creating chances. Watching us awkwardly play the ball round in our own half isn't how I want to be spending Saturday afternoons this year.

True like, no point spending 20mins to play football from the back to the front and then watch it fizzle out in the oppo box.

When your 3-0 up then pretty triangles is the order of the day.

 

[Steve Wigan]

It's certainly what I've seen, there's an obvious reluctance from the players to play anything but a short ball at the back.

I have to laugh at your notion that before the arrival of Martinez we were somehow 'industrial' in our play & he's going to somehow get us back to the glory days by having us play in the style that his last side did.......

Our glory years during my lifetime (my first game was '78) was Kendall Mk I's side, & Joe's Cup winning side of '95. Don't try & tell me that both of those sides were successful through some form of tiki taka, short passing style of play mate.

Listen, Martinez seems a decent bloke & he certainly talks a good game, but I have genuine concerns about how his seeming obsession with 'his style' might overtake the need to achieve results. We can't afford a season of midtable obscurity, if our best players think we're not at least in the mix at the start of the season for a Euro spot, then they're going to look to move on. In short he needs to adapt our 'style' over time, as I'm certain that all of our current personnel don't have the exact attributes that he would choose if he was starting from scratch.

Therefore, he needs to implement changes that his current players are capable of delivering & change his personnel over time. As he brings in more of what he wants, he can make more changes, steadily getting to the 'style' that he wants us to play, with players that have the right skill set to deliver it.

My concern is that he didn't do that at Wigan. There he insisted that they played in a certain style from the off & it was patently obvious that some of the players simply weren't good enough to deliver what he wanted. A good manager gets the maximum out of what he has at his disposal. Based solely on pre-season it would appear that Martinez is going to do the same at Goodison i.e. totally change the style from day 1, which whilst we have better players than he had at Wigan, is still a massive risk in my eyes & I make no apologies for sharing it.

I hope the guy goes on to prove that my concerns are totally unnecessary & we 'mix & match' our game to suit who were playing & who we have available. I think you've mis-interpreted a valid concern for a 'moan', we've got nothing to moan about yet, as we've not kicked a competitive ball.

Good thoughtful post. I would just add that its obvious that Martinez also has the ability to change his system when its neccesary. When Wigan went on their 'famous' 8/10 game run at the end of the season before last, it was because Martinez adapted their system to accomodate the (limitations of) the players he had available. He is to clever to persist too long with something that isn't working...he'll either adapt the system or change the players. He has a difficult job, but my gut feeling is that he's up for it.

 

[dannyboy]

True like, no point spending 20mins to play football from the back to the front and then watch it fizzle out in the oppo box.

When your 3-0 up then pretty triangles is the order of the day.

That's a good point actually. Our ability to retain possession and close games out left a lot to be desired under Moyes, this is probably the area Martinez's philosophy can improve us most.

 

[dannyboy]

Good thoughtful post. I would just add that its obvious that Martinez also has the ability to change his system when its neccesary. When Wigan went on their 'famous' 8/10 game run at the end of the season before last, it was because Martinez adapted their system to accomodate the (limitations of) the players he had available.[/B] He is to clever to persist too long with something that isn't working...he'll either adapt the system or change the players. He has a difficult job, but my gut feeling is that he's up for it.

Curious to wonder as to why he abandoned that approach at the start of the next season.

 

[Housequake]

I swear people go on like we had Stoke-esque tactics under Moyes. This style that Martinez aspires to achieve, is it really any better on the eye than how we started last season?

We started last season like a whirlwind and for a moment it looked as though Moyes had tweaked our game to perfection...before going back into his shell and having us revert to type...hence why we didn't see a Swansea/Villa/Southampton type performance for a very long time.

Read Moyes' own comments on how he likes his teams to play (on the web somewhere), listen to Jagielka talk about it when he was on the Sunday Supplement, Moyes wanted the ball back to front as quick as possible and wanted forwards to seek the ball in all areas with midfielders pushing on...constantly putting pressure on their final 1/3.

It's a perfectly fine game plan that delivers consistent results but we don't have Marcus Bent and Kevin Kilbane type workhorses playing for us anymore, we've got some cultured players here that can play the ball on the deck real nice. It's going to be a nice change of pace and will no doubt put an extra 1/2k on the gates per week if it comes off nicely. At the end of the day Moyes' Everton had no tangible success so we can't exactly be worried that a change in style is going to dry anything up ffs.

 

[Housequake]

Martinez also isn't a boring, dour b*stard either. That'll be refreshing.

 

[Sideliner]

we have not seen the real Martinez managing the real Everton side so far -
what we have seen is a new manager finding his feet and experimenting as much as possible to learn as much as possible-
he has used more players in his pre-season than our previous manager used in his full season - give the guy a break -
some of our previous manager's fans just cannot seem to wait to see Martinez fail -
I hope he proves all these doom seekers wrong -
he is trying to play a modern style of football which is attractive and successful at the same time -
something which the Spanish and the Germans have achieved but something which has eluded the English for some time now

 

[Steve Wigan]

Curious to wonder as to why he abandoned that approach at the start of the next season.

I think the problem was that he didn't really...just tinkered with it slightly, and it was sussed by a lot of his opposition. He also had a key player(Alcaraz) injured for the majority of the season, and while 'injuries' are usually no excuse, its fair to assume that with Alcaraz in the defence they could have saved another few points and stayed up. The lack of squad depth at Everton was nothing compared to that at Wigan.

 

[deipnosophist]

The old adage 'you cannot make an omelette without breaking an egg' seems an apposite one for EFC under new management/style. Of course, nor do you don't want to throw the baby out with the bath-water. So, sententious bollocks aside, we are in a (necessary) transition period and our expectations should be managed/balanced accordingly.
With such equilibrated attitude, I approach the season's football with some excitement. I am certainly not 'under aroused' (and hope Jelavic isn't either!!).

 

[rorious]

Martinez is dragging us kicking and screaming into the 21st century. ALLEZ ALLEZ OH

 

[Essex Blue]

Martinez is dragging us kicking and screaming into the 21st century. ALLEZ ALLEZ OH

He needs to mix it with a bit of '95 though mate. People will laugh, but Barton would have provided that.

 

[kiss the crest]

What is all the fuss about? Martinez has won no points or lost any points, all he has done is take stock of the tools he has to work with played with a few formations with some of the best sides in Europe and some blues have written him off already?

Lets give the guy a chance