A Change in Strategy?

[kenada_blue]

Could be a bit of both then:

http://www.independent.co.uk/sport/...r-ways-to-save-the-national-game-2013098.html
The Premier League's new rules governing the quota of home-developed players, which is to be introduced next season, has already impacted on clubs' transfer market activity. When the summer transfer window has closed on 1 September, each club must name a squad of 25 players for the forthcoming half-season, eight of which must have spent three years at an English or Welsh academy. Beyond that pool of 25, whose names must be submitted to the league – replicating the squad system for European competitions – a club may also select an unlimited number of under-21s, who will provide the flexibility needed in an injury crisis. Manchester United chief executive David Gill has described how the quota system has informed the club's decisions to invest in young players.

United seem ready to promote 20-year-old Ben Amos to be their third-choice keeper next season having made Tomasz Kuszczak the deputy to Edwin van der Sar. They have signed 20-year-old defender Chris Smalling, another Englishman from Fulham. Liverpool have signed midfielder Jonjo Shelvey from Charlton. Manchester City's desire to hold on to Nedum Onuoha and Shaun Wright-Phillips stems, in part, from the same quota rule.

The proposed Fifa legislation which might have done most to preserve the number of homegrown players in the league, the six-plus-five rule, was dropped on the eve of the World Cup. The Premier League opposed the idea, in part because the advice was that it would fall foul of European law. Fifa have finally reached the same conclusion.

Citeh aren't really giving a [Poor language removed] about that rule it looks like. Can't they just pepper the squad with [Poor language removed] youngsters to meet the quota then fill the rest with foreign players

 

[Andy M.]

It seems Moyes has decided to spread his wings this off season investing in cheap bargains of young players and free players - joao, beckford, mucha, gueye. This has left us with a squad that in Moyesie terms is practically bloated. some 30 odd players (although no doubt a few will go on loan or perhaps be sold).

I think this was our policy last transfer window (confirmed targets: Naughton, Elm; signed: Mustafi, Garbutt...), until it became clear that Lescott was definitely leaving.

the Premier League system where there must be eight home-grown players in squad of 25

By my counting, we still have 6 places for not home-grown players over 21, is this right?

 

[Neiler]

EU employment law - and restriction of trade totally different animals.

this is purely about the right of EU citizens to move across all 27 national borders and work anywhere in the EU (in their eyes).

However, by allowing other nationals into the academies and to effectively "earn" a neutral stance in relation to the rule after three years - it is not a restriction of employment.

a "proportionate means of achieving a legitimate aim", which is legal under EU law.

Therefore they - and there's been no case made against it from the EU commission yet - feel that the 8 members of 25, and "earned" exception is more proportionate.

Its all to do with the Discrimination under EU law.

I think it is a bit ropey though mate and very challengable should it be tested should someone take exception. Say a disgruntled foregin player who doesnt meet said criteria, whos squad place is taken by someone who does.

I cant see this rule lasting to be honest - but its clever, far cleverer then Fifas proposal, i wonder will theyhave a rethink now that Fifa got a red card from Europe.

 

[Matt Damon]

I think it is a bit ropey though mate and very challengable should it be tested should someone take exception. Say a disgruntled foregin player who doesnt meet said criteria, whos squad place is taken by someone who does.

I cant see this rule lasting to be honest - but its clever, far cleverer then Fifas proposal, i wonder will theyhave a rethink now that Fifa got a red card from Europe.

Well some legal bods in HR law seem to think it's compatible.

I think its far harder to have it changed than you think, because the "proportionate means of achieving a legitimate aim" is mentioned specifically in most equality legislation.

As in many cases there may be legitimate reasons why person x cannot do job y.

In most cases as long as hard evidence that the legitimate aim is fair - in this case the nurturing of talent from within national states of the EU which is being harmed by entirely free movement across borders....

then it's justifiable indirect-discrimination and therefore not illegal.

example: Surgeon develops a tremor and therefore is effectively Disabled. He's disbarred from being a surgeon if he fails a competency-test/medical that sees if he has a tremour. He cannot sue for disability discrimination because this is JUSTIFIABLE DISCRIMINATION - for the purposes or being a proportionate response to achieve a legitimate aim - i.e. not to kill his patients!



The Premier League must believe they are going to be able to get this information.

People think the laws there to be unworkable or un-understandable.

Its not.

Its very proportionate and understandable that nations want to develop their own talent, and because that development is currently being harmed by the current rules. As long as the response is proportionate and doesn't directly discriminate and allows the legitimate aim to be shown, then it's not illegal.

And its not ropey either.

 

[bluebloodinmyveins]

Anyone else bored of long winded posts? Prob just me like.

 

[Matt Damon]

Anyone else bored of long winded posts? Prob just me like.

Read something else then.

 

[bluebloodinmyveins]

Read something else then.

Didn't you understand my last post? I DON'T read them.

 

[Neiler]

Well some legal bods in HR law seem to think it's compatible.

I think its far harder to have it changed than you think, because the "proportionate means of achieving a legitimate aim" is mentioned specifically in most equality legislation.

As in many cases there may be legitimate reasons why person x cannot do job y.

In most cases as long as hard evidence that the legitimate aim is fair - in this case the nurturing of talent from within national states of the EU which is being harmed by entirely free movement across borders....

then it's justifiable indirect-discrimination and therefore not illegal.

example: Surgeon develops a tremor and therefore is effectively Disabled. He's disbarred from being a surgeon if he fails a competency-test/medical that sees if he has a tremour. He cannot sue for disability discrimination because this is JUSTIFIABLE DISCRIMINATION - for the purposes or being a proportionate response to achieve a legitimate aim - i.e. not to kill his patients!



The Premier League must believe they are going to be able to get this information.

People think the laws there to be unworkable or un-understandable.

Its not.

Its very proportionate and understandable that nations want to develop their own talent. As long as the response is proportionate and doesn't directly discriminate and allows the legitimate aim to be shown, then it's not illegal.

And its not ropey either.

Like i say its a tight one but i beleive challengeable - look whats happening, taking Everton as an example bringing more foregin talent into the academy then ever before at a knock down price - i imagine the rule was brought in to protect indigionous indusry in the sector i.e British talent - when really all its done is push down the age that clubs are looking for foregin talent to nationalise them in accordance to the rule at a cheaper rate.

So really all its done is make the buying of foreing talent a lot less expensive, which discriminates against say a 17 year old french man verses a 32 year old one. All you need is one foregin disgruntled player, replaced by nationalised or British player to take this on.

Without coming across as cynical i would think the crux of this agreement is to drive down the cost of foregin talent by buying it younger, then looking to perserve the English game.

 

[quasi modo]

Anyone else bored of long winded posts? Prob just me like.

Yeah, only so many ways you can say the same thing.

 

[chicoazul]

I'm with Neiler here, it's badly racist and not sustainable long term.

 

[Neiler]

Anyone else bored of long winded posts? Prob just me like.

Im more bored of the handbagging, needleing and going of topic!

Its a forum, feel free to discuss the topic, if not take your own advice and ignore it - rather then comment on contibutors style of posting - theres no need on here for comments like that above.

 

[neonleon]

Anyone else bored of long winded posts? Prob just me like.

Yeah, only so many ways you can say the same thing.

Sure. Tolstoy could've sacked war and peace off. Just wrote something like "there was a few people that lived over the years and stuff happened to them lol."

Nothing wrong with long posts for people of a generation that can sustain focus and attention longer than a cheap ringtone.

 

[bluebloodinmyveins]

Im more bored of the handbagging, needleing and going of topic!

Its a forum, feel free to discuss the topic, if not take your own advice and ignore it - rather then comment on contibutors style of posting - theres no need on here for comments like that above.

Oh ok I'm not allowed to voice an opinion. Duly noted.

 

[neonleon]

Like i say its a tight one but i beleive challengeable - look whats happening, taking Everton as an example bringing more foregin talent into the academy then ever before at a knock down price - i imagine the rule was brought in to protect indigionous indusry in the sector i.e British talent - when really all its done is push down the age that clubs are looking for foregin talent to nationalise them in accordance to the rule at a cheaper rate.

So really all its done is make the buying of foreing talent a lot less expensive, which discriminates against say a 17 year old french man verses a 32 year old one. All you need is one foregin disgruntled player, replaced by nationalised or British player to take this on.

Without coming across as cynical i would think the crux of this agreement is to drive down the cost of foregin talent by buying it younger, then looking to perserve the English game.

I see what you are saying, but virtually every law has unintended consequences. As you suggest these aren't the ones that the laws were intended to bring about, but in hindsight are entirely predictable. We must remember that in comparison to pure employment laws in the Eu and the UK football already exists in a strange bubble. Virtually any footballer could quite rightly challenge being kept to a contract, as in any other job, employees are free to move from any job on a week to week basis.

While we can only hope english football prospers (well the vaguely english and patriotic amongst us), I'm glad to see everton being proactive in exploiting any loopholes or opportunities these laws present.

 

[OneTrueLegend]

Moyes has always emphasised a small tightly knit squad, focused on key players. This way his transfer money has gone further and become concentrated in the first team rather than throughout the squad. This approach generally has paid dividends, until last year when a host of injuries to our core players devastated our league position. It seems Moyes has decided to spread his wings this off season investing in cheap bargains of young players and free players - joao, beckford, mucha, gueye. This has left us with a squad that in Moyesie terms is practically bloated. some 30 odd players (although no doubt a few will go on loan or perhaps be sold).

Still no word on any marquee signings, although it's doubtful we'll have the money for the hatem ben afra's of the world unless we end up selling.

Does anyone think this represents a change in philosophy or is Moyes simply planning for the future and are the majority of these players reserve, backup or youth players anyways?

I think it is a bit of a change of focus, I think in previous seasons Moyes has been on the hunt for at least one genuine first team player or "Marquee Signing"
Where as now based on the signings we have made I think Moyes is trying to bring in good squad players (Mucha and Beckford) and players who he can mould (Gueye, Joao and Abdullayev).

If we keep our current first team squad I dont think we will make a "Marquee Signing", because we dont really have the money unless we sell someone.