6 + 2 Point Deductions

[blueboy72]

The new Uefa rules that the league are looking towards, I think are even more restrictive than our current league ones. This is because the 70% ratio to income is not just wages. A club will be restricted to spending 70% of their turnover on wages AND transfer fees and agent payments. If you look at the wage ratio income now of the majority of clubs, teams either exceed it already in wages alone or if they don't they they will have nothing left for transfer fees. Player agents fees can also be 8 figures a season in some cases.

The new rules will hit us even harder I think.

According to dickie masters it’s 70% for clubs in Europe and 85% for the rest so it will be 85% for us at first, if they follow the European model.

 

[pfim]

All this talk of punishing the fans is nonsense and does the argument no favours at all. Can a team not be relegated because it will hurt the fans? It's football.

Saying that the punishment exacerbates the issue also lacks any credibility. The rules and punishments are an incentive to clubs to manage their affairs properly. If a club fails to do this, you can't then say that punishment is unfair as there is otherwise no incentive and clubs are more likely to be mismanaged to extinction. Its the management's fault, nobody else's.

I get its raw and it hurts, especially when you look at city and how they have gotten away with things for so long but the best bet is simply claiming the punishment is disproportionate and the process lacked clarity as there is certainly an argument to be had there. The rest of it just dramatic nonsense that won't hold any weight with the panel.

There are three groups in world club football:

Owners
Players/Agents
Supporters

Only one of those groups stays with the club throughout its or their lifespan. It's also the only one that has zero say in how the club is run in most cases and the only one guaranteed to receive no income from it.

I don't identify with Farhad Moshiri, why should I be punished for his mismanagement?

It's not really an argument I'm making, more of an existential question.

 

[HowardsWay]

All this talk of punishing the fans is nonsense and does the argument no favours at all. Can a team not be relegated because it will hurt the fans? It's football.

Saying that the punishment exacerbates the issue also lacks any credibility. The rules and punishments are an incentive to clubs to manage their affairs properly. If a club fails to do this, you can't then say that punishment is unfair as there is otherwise no incentive and clubs are more likely to be mismanaged to extinction. Its the management's fault, nobody else's.

I get its raw and it hurts, especially when you look at city and how they have gotten away with things for so long but the best bet is simply claiming the punishment is disproportionate and the process lacked clarity as there is certainly an argument to be had there. The rest of it just dramatic nonsense that won't hold any weight with the panel.

Very well said. 100% agree. However, in our case, it really does speak of shutting the door after the horse has bolted.

 

[HowardsWay]

There are three groups in world club football:

Owners
Players/Agents
Supporters

Only one of those groups stays with the club throughout its or their lifespan. It's also the only one that has zero say in how the club is run in most cases and the only one guaranteed to receive no income from it.

I don't identify with Farhad Moshiri, why should I be punished for his mismanagement?

It's not really an argument I'm making, more of an existential question.

LOL... that's actually funny.

Well the reason you should be punished for his actions is the same reason you should be happy when things are going well. There are no certainties in football when you choose to support a football club. I didn't see many questioning the man when he was spending willy nilly.

And, by the way, you aren't being punished. You can still watch your team play football. It might be in a different competition or against opponents you consider unworthy but you can still watch them.

 

[Stuartisitc1878]

The league’s opened a bag of worms. The idea that teams might not know their fate after the final game of the season is absurd. Would the Prem do the same if an appeal could decide a title? Because that’s what will eventually happen. Would they present Liverpool or Arsenal the trophy, have all the fireworks and celebrations and then 2 weeks later confirm City’s appeal was successful and they are in fact champions? Of course they wouldn’t.

I feel for Dyche and the players. They suffer for the owner and former boards complete mismanagement. They must go into games each week wondering what’s the point. Referees give us sod all, VAR will probably screw us over and even if we win there’s not guarantee that the points will matter come the end of the season.

 

[PhilEFC]

All this talk of punishing the fans is nonsense and does the argument no favours at all. Can a team not be relegated because it will hurt the fans? It's football.

Saying that the punishment exacerbates the issue also lacks any credibility. The rules and punishments are an incentive to clubs to manage their affairs properly. If a club fails to do this, you can't then say that punishment is unfair as there is otherwise no incentive and clubs are more likely to be mismanaged to extinction. Its the management's fault, nobody else's.

I get its raw and it hurts, especially when you look at city and how they have gotten away with things for so long but the best bet is simply claiming the punishment is disproportionate and the process lacked clarity as there is certainly an argument to be had there. The rest of it just dramatic nonsense that won't hold any weight with the panel.

But why the double standards when the Scab 6 got collared for trying to destroy the football pyramid?

A measly £22 million fine between them all and Masters saying you can’t punish the fans, sounds fair.

 

[pfim]

LOL... that's actually funny.

Well the reason you should be punished for his actions is the same reason you should be happy when things are going well. There are no certainties in football when you choose to support a football club. I didn't see many questioning the man when he was spending willy nilly.

And, by the way, you aren't being punished. You can still watch your team play football. It might be in a different competition or against opponents you consider unworthy but you can still watch them.

That's what I'm getting at.

Not many were questioning him because our interests were aligned at that time.

They clearly are not now.

Who is responsible for making sure the supporters interests are in line with the owners?

 

[HowardsWay]

That's what I'm getting at.

Not many were questioning him because our interests were aligned at that time.

They clearly are not now.

Who is responsible for making sure the supporters interests are in line with the owners?

How long is a piece of string?

 

[Gilbert..]

I don't think many clubs do, and if the ones who do have owners who are allowed and willing to cover it, then I don't see an issue.

Always thought that was a better way. If a new owner comes in a lays down enough money to cover everything upfront and its regulated. it covers wages and contracts and transfer spending for say 3 years then i dont see what the problem is. If you're lucky enough to have someone with that sort of money who can put it in a guarenteed kitty then good luck to you.
Its basically what man city have done but had to do it by pretending they paid 30m for a loo roll holder.

 

[pfim]

How long is a piece of string?

You can answer it because it's already being done elsewhere in the world. Just need to open your eyes.

No one is worried about the financial stability of an NFL team or an NHL team.

But the PL is so impotent they're decades away from any meaningful regulation.

 

[WestStandLower]

It's all fine until that owner then gets into financial difficulties themselves and then leaves the club in mountains of debt. The fit and proper test is complete b/s really because circumstances in life and business are always changing. I agree they shouldn't let corrupt or folks without the means run clubs but once you are in, you are deemed fit and proper even though circumstances may change.

I agree that most clubs probably don't see losing that kind of money as acceptable but it seems to me, on this forum, that a lot of our fans think it is entirely acceptable.

From a business perspective losses or should I say losses in the accounts aren’t the be all and end all.

The Glazers at Man U for instance yes take dividends but they have leveraged the club and ever so often they sell on another chunk of their shareholding .

Then you have our situation.

During RAs tenure he dontaed / invested/ lent the club £1. Something billion that sum included his initial investment in buying Bates shares.

Ok he didn’t get the proceeds of sale but had the sale been nir he RA would have turned a profit of over £1 billion and that’s using the number achieved due to a forced sale

 

[John from Bootle]

LOL... that's actually funny.

Well the reason you should be punished for his actions is the same reason you should be happy when things are going well. There are no certainties in football when you choose to support a football club. I didn't see many questioning the man when he was spending willy nilly.

And, by the way, you aren't being punished. You can still watch your team play football. It might be in a different competition or against opponents you consider unworthy but you can still watch them.

You might have a point if all and sundry hadn't wheeled that argument out for the scabs who tried to destroy the game as we know it.

Also, as a paying fan, I enjoy victories because they ultimately mean something. The flip side of that is nobody really cares about friendlies.

Of course we enjoy it when things are going well. Just like we don't when they're not. This points deduction though renders at least 4 games I've paid for as friendlies, effectively. and they're robbing fans of the enjoyment they anticipate when they stump up the cash.

 

[HowardsWay]

You can answer it because it's already being done elsewhere in the world. Just need to open your eyes.

No one is worried about the financial stability of an NFL team or an NHL team.

But the PL is so impotent they're decades away from any meaningful regulation.

Yeah...but that's the franchise system for you and if a team was to go bankrupt, the league would step in and run the team until a new owner was found. Completely different system and doesn't mean it aligns with fans interests as we have seen teams move cities.

 

[PITA]

I see a lot of RS jumping on the 'we lied to the commission' bandwagon, can anyone tell me exactly what we lied about?

The RS protected a racist and their fans killed 39 people. Their opinions don't carry any weight with fair-minded people.

 

[HowardsWay]

You might have a point if all and sundry hadn't wheeled that argument out for the scabs who tried to destroy the game as we know it.

Also, as a paying fan, I enjoy victories because they ultimately mean something. The flip side of that is nobody really cares about friendlies.

Of course we enjoy it when things are going well. Just like we don't when they're not. This points deduction though renders at least 4 games I've paid for as friendlies, effectively. and they're robbing fans of the enjoyment they anticipate when they stump up the cash.

Well, you could argue VAR does that as well.
As far as fans are concerned, no-one in football really gives a stuff about fans. They give platitudes and sound bites but fans only contribute a small amount of revenue to Prem. clubs. And, from a fan point of view, you have a choice whether you stump up your hard earned in attending games. There is no guarantee the team will win, some ref screws the game up or that you will actually enjoy the game.