3-4-3 do we have players for it currently?

Dell Boy · May 29, 2013

stinger said:
In theory Heitinga should play as CB because of 3 reasons - he's slowest centre back, he is the best ball playing one and he is the most comfortable stepping into midfield.

"Best ball playing centre back" is all very relative but whenever I see Johnnycake about to launch the ball I shudder.

Anyway he'll be off this summer that bad meff

stinger · May 29, 2013

MartSlinger said:
Why change something that isnt broken? The only change i expect from Martinez is the way we play footy and we certainly have the players capable, as shown in games this season! Most recently, West Ham.

But if we don't want to change things why are actually looking outside for a manager? We should get someone from inside and tell him to do best Moyes impersonation job he can do.

You all realize that if we would sign (somehow) Vitor Pereira his training methods and football philosophy can potentially be way different to Moyes? I guess it's switching from 4 man back line to 3 man which scares you all, oh well.

BirkenheadBlue · May 29, 2013

I might be wrong, but has 3 at the back ever... EVER worked in the Premier League?

stinger · May 29, 2013

BirkenheadBlue said:
I might be wrong, but has 3 at the back ever... EVER worked in the Premier League?

Years ago there was a serious trend to play 3-man defense all over the Europe and it even included Premier League (bar Manchester United looking at top teams at least). For example Wenger won his 1st Premier League title playing Adams, Bould and Keown as CB and Dixon and Winternburn (sp?) as wing backs.

BirkenheadBlue · May 29, 2013

stinger said:
Years ago there was a serious trend to play 3-man defense all over the Europe and it even included Premier League (bar Manchester United looking at top teams at least). For example Wenger won his 1st Premier League title playing Adams, Bould and Keown as CB and Dixon and Winternburn (sp?) as wing backs.

You sure about the arsenal bit?

None of Bould, Adams and Keown started more than 26 games (Adams) that season, Bould started 21 and Keown started 18. That's 65 Premier League season starts... plus 16 from Grimandi (who played several positions, so let's say generously 8 at CB) and 5 from Upson.

That's 78 starts, which is almost exactly right for playing two centre backs.

Julian Carax · May 29, 2013

Don't think 3 at the back works in the Premier League.

Jags..class · May 29, 2013

Its quite exciting, but to be fair to Martinez he wont go 343 cos our team formation works, he not totally soft and come in and play 3 at the back. But he wont have his defenders hoofing it to fellaini. I would rather go for someone fresh then a Moyes clone who would never be as good as Moyes anyway.

stinger · May 29, 2013

BirkenheadBlue said:
You sure about the arsenal bit?

None of Bould, Adams and Keown started more than 26 games (Adams) that season, Bould started 21 and Keown started 18. That's 65 Premier League season starts... plus 16 from Grimandi (who played several positions, so let's say generously 8 at CB) and 5 from Upson.

That's 78 starts, which is almost exactly right for playing two centre backs.

First thing after asking Google - http://www.independent.co.uk/sport/bergkamps-brilliance-makes-amends-1283484.html

And I usually have a good memory for things like that. Not saying that they were playing 3-5-2 every game, but it was their preferred formation.

Edit: One more example, looks like I was wrong about Manchester United as well -
http://www.transfermarkt.pl/pl/manchester-united-fc-arsenal/index/spielbericht_1113149.html

Carlito · May 29, 2013

I'd give it a go from time to time, but like every formation it can be figured out by opposition managers if you use it every single week without fail (e.g. Moyes' 4-5-1/4-2-3-1 being stifled by teams sitting deep last season).

Carlito · May 29, 2013

Azzurri said:
Moyes used it once. I swear. Once.

Used it at home to Tottenham 2-3 years ago as well. Game finished 0-0, not much happened.

BirkenheadBlue · May 29, 2013

stinger said:
First thing after asking Google - http://www.independent.co.uk/sport/bergkamps-brilliance-makes-amends-1283484.html

And I usually have a good memory for things like that. Not saying that they were playing 3-5-2 every game, but it was their preferred formation.

Edit: One more example, looks like I was wrong about Manchester United as well -
http://www.transfermarkt.pl/pl/manchester-united-fc-arsenal/index/spielbericht_1113149.html

Hmmm. Very odd, because the appearance numbers make it pretty much impossible for them to have played 3-5-2 for more than a handful of games.

Also, I'd be AMAZED if that's actually how Man Utd lined up in that game. Surely

Neville - Johnsen - May - Neville

makes far more sense?

Either way, I think it's fair to say three at the back has failed FAR more often than it's succeeded in the Premier League

stinger · May 29, 2013

BirkenheadBlue said:
Hmmm. Very odd, because the appearance numbers make it pretty much impossible for them to have played 3-5-2 for more than a handful of games.

Also, I'd be AMAZED if that's actually how Man Utd lined up in that game. Surely

Neville - Johnsen - May - Neville

makes far more sense?

Either way, I think it's fair to say three at the back has failed FAR more often than it's succeeded in the Premier League

I don't think it's fair. Premier League was never a league where tactical trends were born - after continental teams started to switch back to 4 man defense and English teams were struggling against them in Europe, they followed. It's difficult to judge 3 man defense in England, cause there was no team using it consistently in time when majority of teams on similar level was playing 4-4-2-ish.
In recent years only Wigan tried and it was sporadically used for defensive purposes by other teams, mostly against Stoke to make sure they have one more tall CB on the pitch.

Jimboefc97 · May 29, 2013

I think it could work well with the right players used. However I don't think it worked well at all against Stoke this season but that's Stoke and they could drain the life out of a dead fly.

Eggs · May 29, 2013

...silly thread, presume this relates to Martinez in which case I suggest the debate regarding 3-4-3 is being discussed in parallel elsewhere.

chriswho · May 29, 2013

Assuming NO changes in squad, I'd love to see us play this (3-4-2-1)

...................Howard
...........Duffy - Jags - Distin
Coleman - Gibson - Fellaini - Baines
..............Mirallis - Pienaar
...................Anichebe

Allows Anichibe to play the hold up role he does very well able to lay it off to as many as 6 on rushing offensive playmakers.

If Jelavic finds his touch again, this may shift to allowing the forward to score more, but this would expect the goals to be more from the 6 midfielders (baines and coleman basically as wingbacks).