Current Affairs 2024 POTUS race

[davek]

I agree that the Democrats could and should do more.
I disagree that Trump is a better option.
I disagree that abstaining in Michigan is a better option.
You seem to think it is, you seem to think it'll teach the Democrats some sort of lesson.

I dont think Trump is a better option. Where have I stated that?

As for lessons being handed out: isn't that part and part of functioning democracies: that political parties are subjected to disapproval and learn from it? No political party can afford to ignore the aspirations of people or their grievances. What makes the Democratic Party any different to that?

 

[Ruairi77]

I dont think Trump is a better option. Where have I stated that?

As for lessons being handed out: isn't that part and part of functioning democracies: that political parties are subjected to disapproval and learn from it? No political party can afford to ignore the aspirations of people or their grievances. What makes the Democratic Party any different to that?

You've mentioned numerous times that if it were you, you'd abstain.
For me, that's a vote for Trump who is relying on low turnout.

 

[Ruairi77]

As for lessons being handed out: isn't that part and part of functioning democracies: that political parties are subjected to disapproval and learn from it? No political party can afford to ignore the aspirations of people or their grievances. What makes the Democratic Party any different to that?

Nothing, thats how Rasheed and Omar got elected.
But this is a federal election and a two horse race.
No one should abstain based on one issue in order to try and make a point.

You voted for Labour. Not like Starmer is ending the war. But you didnt abstain because the Tories were worse.
Simple stuff Dave

 

[davek]

You do know that Israel was well armed before the 40k were killed right? They could easily have executed the war regardless
Most shipments are planned well in advance. They can withhold some shipments but it is merely a gesture of discontent.

The only way to stop it would be to position their troops in the way and take control of the skies. How would that go down with the American public at large?
The UK continue to supply Israel with military equipment too

Both nations were key players in the formation of the state and were supported by many other nations post WW2 but there is a sense of looking out for the delinquent adolescent about the whole thing at this stage. Israel get away with a lot more than they should, no question about it

I'm as annoyed about it as you are but do you have a solution? What can the US do with this current Israeli regime? What constitutes a 'meaningful way'?
Personally I would've liked Netanyahu arrested on American soil and handed over to the Hague but that was never going to happen.

Pulling the plug completely on Israel is not as simple as you seem to think.
Maybe Arab Americans will abstain en masse or maybe they will weigh up the risks of allowing Trump in thereby exacerbating the problem and vote Democrat. Humiliation is a subjective feeling and you can't know how they will approach it.

If your point is it must be frustrating as an Arab American to witness this then I agree. It probably is. It is also frustrating for many other Americans and beyond(us for example) but how do they stop it without weakening Israel long term? Something I don't care about, but many Americans do.

You won't get any argument from me about the British state. It's a rancid, colonialist-imperialist power and has been for centuries.

Ilm not looking for links to be pulled on Israel. The US will never do that as it's not in their own best interests to do so. But they do call the shots with Israel and they do need to change their relationship with the Palestinians.

It seems a million years ago when Carter gave it a real good go at Camp David at trying get a deal that'd settle the Palestinian question. His type of courage and vision are nowhere to be seen with these political pygmies today.

 

[davek]

You've mentioned numerous times that if it were you, you'd abstain.
For me, that's a vote for Trump who is relying on low turnout.

Nothing, thats how Rasheed and Omar got elected.
But this is a federal election and a two horse race.
No one should abstain based on one issue in order to try and make a point.

You voted for Labour. Not like Starmer is ending the war. But you didnt abstain because the Tories were worse.
Simple stuff Dave

Erm, I beg your pardon?

 

[verreauxi]

Look mate, I'm not getting in to all this again. (as he gets in to all this again)
First off, I have a huge issue with how the Democrats are handling Gaza.
Secondly, I'll vote for Harris because I dont vote on just one policy and even if I did, I'd still vote D over R re, Gaza.
Everyone here knows it's a close run thing in Michigan. And yes, if Democrats start voting for Trump, Harris has a problem.
But I would be absolutely shocked if you could find me one Democrat who is voting for Trump because of Palestine.
The uncomitted vote is a great movement and have done all the right things to raise awareness on a national stage.
Harris has already taken a less hardline approach.
Uncommitted voters will, for the most part, opt for Harris in November as long as the other guy is Donald Trump.
Listen to the Americans on this forum Dave. It's actually a fairly good cross section of center and left wing views.
(with the odd nutball thrown in for spice)

Some random thoughts...
Jewish Americans have the highest voter turnout amongst any ethnicity, something not lost on KH and the team, and segments of the Jewish American (and non-Jewish) voters are well-organized; see for example, here: https://demmajorityforisrael.org/who-we-are/issues/
Jewish Americans out-number Arab American voters in every one of the key states except Michigan. Not to mention many Arab Americans are not Muslim (only one quarter are), though I doubt that would matter much with respect to the Palestinian situation.

In Michigan, Harris leads Trump by a little more than 2%, which is about the same percentage of Arab Americans in Michigan. You would need all 220K to withhold their votes for it to be an even race. I find this unlikely.

Dems are in a difficult situation trying to balance this tragedy, while Republicans, at least with respect to their 2024 July Platform, are pretty much pro-Israel and use sentences like "Republicans condemn antisemitism, and support revoking Visas of Foreign Nationals who support terrorism and jihadism. We will hold accountable those who perpetrate violence against Jewish people" and "We will stand with Israel, and seek peace in the Middle East."

There is no mention of Palestine in the Republican 2024 platform, but they do use the word "jihadists" a few times. It's pretty clear they will act unilaterally on this issue and not remotely serve the interests of Palestine. In contrast, the DNC platform from 2024 mentions Palestine 8x, which at the very least acknowledges their plight.

 

[Damo_1878]

 

[BlueTX]

Some random thoughts...
Jewish Americans have the highest voter turnout amongst any ethnicity, something not lost on KH and the team, and segments of the Jewish American (and non-Jewish) voters are well-organized; see for example, here: https://demmajorityforisrael.org/who-we-are/issues/
Jewish Americans out-number Arab American voters in every one of the key states except Michigan. Not to mention many Arab Americans are not Muslim (only one quarter are), though I doubt that would matter much with respect to the Palestinian situation.

In Michigan, Harris leads Trump by a little more than 2%, which is about the same percentage of Arab Americans in Michigan. You would need all 220K to withhold their votes for it to be an even race. I find this unlikely.

Dems are in a difficult situation trying to balance this tragedy, while Republicans, at least with respect to their 2024 July Platform, are pretty much pro-Israel and use sentences like "Republicans condemn antisemitism, and support revoking Visas of Foreign Nationals who support terrorism and jihadism. We will hold accountable those who perpetrate violence against Jewish people" and "We will stand with Israel, and seek peace in the Middle East."

There is no mention of Palestine in the Republican 2024 platform, but they do use the word "jihadists" a few times. It's pretty clear they will act unilaterally on this issue and not remotely serve the interests of Palestine. In contrast, the DNC platform from 2024 mentions Palestine 8x, which at the very least acknowledges their plight.


View attachment 270745

Facts are such inconvenient things.

 

[Toffeepot]

Some random thoughts...
Jewish Americans have the highest voter turnout amongst any ethnicity, something not lost on KH and the team, and segments of the Jewish American (and non-Jewish) voters are well-organized; see for example, here: https://demmajorityforisrael.org/who-we-are/issues/
Jewish Americans out-number Arab American voters in every one of the key states except Michigan. Not to mention many Arab Americans are not Muslim (only one quarter are), though I doubt that would matter much with respect to the Palestinian situation.

In Michigan, Harris leads Trump by a little more than 2%, which is about the same percentage of Arab Americans in Michigan. You would need all 220K to withhold their votes for it to be an even race. I find this unlikely.

Dems are in a difficult situation trying to balance this tragedy, while Republicans, at least with respect to their 2024 July Platform, are pretty much pro-Israel and use sentences like "Republicans condemn antisemitism, and support revoking Visas of Foreign Nationals who support terrorism and jihadism. We will hold accountable those who perpetrate violence against Jewish people" and "We will stand with Israel, and seek peace in the Middle East."

There is no mention of Palestine in the Republican 2024 platform, but they do use the word "jihadists" a few times. It's pretty clear they will act unilaterally on this issue and not remotely serve the interests of Palestine. In contrast, the DNC platform from 2024 mentions Palestine 8x, which at the very least acknowledges their plight.


View attachment 270745

'Some random thoughts'

Proceeds to post a measured and focused commentary replete with a neat chart

Nice!

 

[LinekersLegs]

Some random thoughts...
Jewish Americans have the highest voter turnout amongst any ethnicity, something not lost on KH and the team, and segments of the Jewish American (and non-Jewish) voters are well-organized; see for example, here: https://demmajorityforisrael.org/who-we-are/issues/
Jewish Americans out-number Arab American voters in every one of the key states except Michigan. Not to mention many Arab Americans are not Muslim (only one quarter are), though I doubt that would matter much with respect to the Palestinian situation.

In Michigan, Harris leads Trump by a little more than 2%, which is about the same percentage of Arab Americans in Michigan. You would need all 220K to withhold their votes for it to be an even race. I find this unlikely.

Dems are in a difficult situation trying to balance this tragedy, while Republicans, at least with respect to their 2024 July Platform, are pretty much pro-Israel and use sentences like "Republicans condemn antisemitism, and support revoking Visas of Foreign Nationals who support terrorism and jihadism. We will hold accountable those who perpetrate violence against Jewish people" and "We will stand with Israel, and seek peace in the Middle East."

There is no mention of Palestine in the Republican 2024 platform, but they do use the word "jihadists" a few times. It's pretty clear they will act unilaterally on this issue and not remotely serve the interests of Palestine. In contrast, the DNC platform from 2024 mentions Palestine 8x, which at the very least acknowledges their plight.


View attachment 270745

The whole

“Abstain from Michigan vote in 2024 election -> Dems lose 2024 election -> Dems “learn lesson” and change to a less Israeli, more Palestinian platform -> win 2028 election -> Jan 2029 new democratic POTUS does X (????) to make things better”

is so riddled with logical holes it is hard to know where to start with it isn’t it!

 

[Pittsburgh Footy]

It's been non-existent not limited.

I ask you the question I asked of @Ruairi77 above: if you're an Arab-American what would your attitude be to the political reaction toward Palestine of the current US administration? Would you want to go out and vote for them?

That's all that's being said here.

And this is how political parties historically survive and prosper if they're lucky: they accommodate and assimilate new realities. How else are they supposed to change and stay relevant? Look at the way the GOP have made inroads into the Latino vote who the Democrats used to be able to count on the vast majority of supporting them. They did it by appealing to core conservative values on matters like religion, education and abortion. There's now a substantial minority of Latinos willing to back the GOP.

I'd vote for the party that does not want to expressly throw me out of the country, or turn a blind eye to the "stand back and stand by" crowd that almost certainly wants to see the back of me

 

[Pittsburgh Footy]

I wish I could live in @davek 's one-issue world of fairy tale land

Life would be so much easier without nuance

 

[Pittsburgh Footy]

I dont think Trump is a better option. Where have I stated that?

As for lessons being handed out: isn't that part and part of functioning democracies: that political parties are subjected to disapproval and learn from it? No political party can afford to ignore the aspirations of people or their grievances. What makes the Democratic Party any different to that?

You're certainly alluding to it, by posting your nonsense in a POTUS election thread, rather than a thread solely related to this issue or the performance of the current POTUS

 

[TN Toffee]

I ask you the question I asked of @Ruairi77 above: if you're an Arab-American what would your attitude be to the political reaction toward Palestine of the current US administration? Would you want to go out and vote for them?

I would like to think I would grasp the reality of a situation where there are only two viable options, and choose what’s best accordingly. You’ve got one group whom a substantial part of their constituency and elected officials believe that the mere presence of Palestinians in that region is an affront to the will of their God. The other group is trying to navigate a political sticky wicket where they rely heavily on both Jewish and Arab votes to build a coalition capable of keeping the former out of power. It doesn’t seem like that difficult a choice to me.

 

[RAFUH]