Current Affairs 2024 POTUS race

[verreauxi]

His presidency is regarded by the vast majority as lacking in vision and a clear lost opportunity to do something radical.

Oh yeah, he was the first black president...but more black people ended up in poverty after his time in office than before he took office.

Obama never ran on a progressive economic policy (he was pretty centrist if I recall). Also, the black-white wealth/income gap has been present for ages; it was highly exacerbated by the great recession in 2007 and has never fully recovered. Obama took office in 2008 and you can't pretend he can be blamed for the 2007 recession and its continuing consequences for African Americans.

Also, just to note, Carter was one of the most economically conservative, almost-right-of-Nixon presidents... He has this weird folklore surrounding him as if he was progressive and fought for the little-guy: he didn't. He waged a war on inflation that only increased unemployment and caused interest rates to soar, but didn't offer any tax cuts either; he favored deregulation and increased social taxes, and passed the Hyde amendment which banned federal funding for abortion. He passed up an opportunity get the government investing in renewable energy, thinking that private industry would do so by itself (it didn't). Etc.

 

[davek]

Obama never ran on a progressive economic policy (he was pretty centrist if I recall). Also, the black-white wealth/income gap has been present for ages; it was highly exacerbated by the great recession in 2007 and has never fully recovered. Obama took office in 2008 and you can't pretend he can be blamed for the 2007 recession and its continuing consequences for African Americans.

Also, just to note, Carter was one of the most economically conservative, almost-right-of-Nixon presidents... He has this weird folklore surrounding him as if he was progressive and fought for the little-guy: he didn't. He waged a war on inflation that only increased unemployment and caused interest rates to soar, but didn't offer any tax cuts either; he favored deregulation and increased social taxes, and passed the Hyde amendment which banned federal funding for abortion. He passed up an opportunity get the government investing in renewable energy, thinking that private industry would do so by itself (it didn't). Etc.

Ok, you know your stuff on Carter. Maybe he's bathed in the light of a progressive with his post-presidency work.

But Obama cant be seen as anything other than a hawk - like most Democratic presidents - in terms of foreign policy and a failure as a levelling up president.

 

[JimmyJeffers]

Obama never ran on a progressive economic policy (he was pretty centrist if I recall). Also, the black-white wealth/income gap has been present for ages; it was highly exacerbated by the great recession in 2007 and has never fully recovered. Obama took office in 2008 and you can't pretend he can be blamed for the 2007 recession and its continuing consequences for African Americans.

Also, just to note, Carter was one of the most economically conservative, almost-right-of-Nixon presidents... He has this weird folklore surrounding him as if he was progressive and fought for the little-guy: he didn't. He waged a war on inflation that only increased unemployment and caused interest rates to soar, but didn't offer any tax cuts either; he favored deregulation and increased social taxes, and passed the Hyde amendment which banned federal funding for abortion. He passed up an opportunity get the government investing in renewable energy, thinking that private industry would do so by itself (it didn't). Etc.

Interesting points on Carter there. Think he’s favourably judged over here a lot as he is seen as being less inclined to have pushed military intervention.

 

[Ruairi77]

Ok, you know your stuff on Carter. Maybe he's bathed in the light of a progressive with his post-presidency work.

But Obama cant be seen as anything other than a hawk - like most Democratic presidents - in terms of foreign policy and a failure as a levelling up president.

His foreign policy wasnt great but it wasnt terrible.
He drew down all the troops from Iraq, ending Bushes illegal war.
He took the troop level in Afghanistan from over 100,000 to 30,000
His use of drones and actions in the likes of Syria and Libya were terrible tho but I dont think he's been any worse than any other POTUS on that front.
Re. the military, he reduced spending hugely for the first time post 9/11, did great work on veterans affairs and ended 'dont ask dont tell'.

Economically, he performed minor miracles. in Jan 2009 he inherited a basket case economy. He was tasked with stopping a huge recession slipping in to another depression. He turned the economy around and saved the US auto industry.

It could be argued that he wasted his majority in his first term trying to reach out and work with the opposition but anyone who followed Obama knew he was going to do that. He also got Obamacare passed. It's far from perfect but it's a massive leap forward from the nothing that was there before.

His biggest achievement and his biggest legacy will always be becoming POTUS. It's hard to put in to words what an achievement that was in America. And as you see now, he had to work on a daily basis with people who made very little effort to hide their racism.

A remarkable man and I'm very glad that he was POTUS when I became a citizen.

 

[verreauxi]

His foreign policy wasnt great but it wasnt terrible.
He drew down all the troops from Iraq, ending Bushes illegal war.
He took the troop level in Afghanistan from over 100,000 to 30,000
His use of drones and actions in the likes of Syria and Libya were terrible tho but I dont think he's been any worse than any other POTUS on that front.
Re. the military, he reduced spending hugely for the first time post 9/11, did great work on veterans affairs and ended 'dont ask dont tell'.

Economically, he performed minor miracles. in Jan 2009 he inherited a basket case economy. He was tasked with stopping a huge recession slipping in to another depression. He turned the economy around and saved the US auto industry.

It could be argued that he wasted his majority in his first term trying to reach out and work with the opposition but anyone who followed Obama knew he was going to do that. He also got Obamacare passed. It's far from perfect but it's a massive leap forward from the nothing that was there before.

His biggest achievement and his biggest legacy will always be becoming POTUS. It's hard to put in to words what an achievement that was in America. And as you see now, he had to work on a daily basis with people who made very little effort to hide their racism.

A remarkable man and I'm very glad that he was POTUS when I became a citizen.

The ACA was absolutely massive and an achievement of Nobel proportions (more than his international work) in terms of lifting millions of Americans into better health that didn't saddle them in debt. He was also relatable, likeable, intelligent, and not a sexual predator, so this differed him from pretty much all previous presidents in one or more of these four criteria since like who knows.

 

[verreauxi]

Ok, you know your stuff on Carter. Maybe he's bathed in the light of a progressive with his post-presidency work.

But Obama cant be seen as anything other than a hawk - like most Democratic presidents - in terms of foreign policy and a failure as a levelling up president.

I too bought into the folklore of Jimmy Carter, and to be sure, I think he had his heart in the right place...he just grew up poor and liked to think that people (i.e., poor people in the USA) could figure stuff out for themselves and not need government assistance, so he proceeded to enact a bunch of social/economic policies that pretty much went against the tide of the New Deal and the sentiments of lots of democrats at the time such as Tip O'Neill. Carter was also obsessed with the growing surburban base, to which he thought his policies would be well received. This wasn't very smart, since it ignored rural and urban Americans. This was all laid out in a great book I read recently called, Chaotic Neutral, which is a recent history of the (floundering) Democrats, as the books' main thesis can be summed up with: Republicans are a party and have pushed an agenda to serve a small special interest base (mostly the wealthy and corporations), while managing to convince a fair amount of rural poor to vote for them; Democrats are a coalition of different agendas, of which the centrists get elected; they have mostly maintained the status quo of one or another policy of previous administrations, including Republican ones (e.g., Obamas continuation of stuff in Lybia/Syria).

 

[Walken]

Interesting points on Carter there. Think he’s favourably judged over here a lot as he is seen as being less inclined to have pushed military intervention.

His post presidential work probably plays a part

 

[davek]

His foreign policy wasnt great but it wasnt terrible.
He drew down all the troops from Iraq, ending Bushes illegal war.
He took the troop level in Afghanistan from over 100,000 to 30,000
His use of drones and actions in the likes of Syria and Libya were terrible tho but I dont think he's been any worse than any other POTUS on that front.
Re. the military, he reduced spending hugely for the first time post 9/11, did great work on veterans affairs and ended 'dont ask dont tell'.

Economically, he performed minor miracles. in Jan 2009 he inherited a basket case economy. He was tasked with stopping a huge recession slipping in to another depression. He turned the economy around and saved the US auto industry.

It could be argued that he wasted his majority in his first term trying to reach out and work with the opposition but anyone who followed Obama knew he was going to do that. He also got Obamacare passed. It's far from perfect but it's a massive leap forward from the nothing that was there before.

His biggest achievement and his biggest legacy will always be becoming POTUS. It's hard to put in to words what an achievement that was in America. And as you see now, he had to work on a daily basis with people who made very little effort to hide their racism.

A remarkable man and I'm very glad that he was POTUS when I became a citizen.

Handing over trillions of $ to banksters isn't a great legacy to have IMO. It's like in this country describing Gordon Brown as a great statesman for bailing out the City of London with a £500 billion giveaway.

A watered down Affordable Care Act? Hmmmm.

Yes, he was certainly the first black president; and he paved the way in a racist nation for other black members of the economic and political elite to take up their place at the trough.

 

[davek]

I too bought into the folklore of Jimmy Carter, and to be sure, I think he had his heart in the right place...he just grew up poor and liked to think that people (i.e., poor people in the USA) could figure stuff out for themselves and not need government assistance, so he proceeded to enact a bunch of social/economic policies that pretty much went against the tide of the New Deal and the sentiments of lots of democrats at the time such as Tip O'Neill. Carter was also obsessed with the growing surburban base, to which he thought his policies would be well received. This wasn't very smart, since it ignored rural and urban Americans. This was all laid out in a great book I read recently called, Chaotic Neutral, which is a recent history of the (floundering) Democrats, as the books' main thesis can be summed up with: Republicans are a party and have pushed an agenda to serve a small special interest base (mostly the wealthy and corporations), while managing to convince a fair amount of rural poor to vote for them; Democrats are a coalition of different agendas, of which the centrists get elected; they have mostly maintained the status quo of one or another policy of previous administrations, including Republican ones (e.g., Obamas continuation of stuff in Lybia/Syria).

Thanks for that. Interesting. Sounds like he lost the Democrats a constituency they'd relied on to get elected and that was the basis of a class shift toward the GOP...or partial shift at least.

 

[Ruairi77]

Yes, he was certainly the first black president; and he paved the way in a racist nation for other black members of the economic and political elite to take up their place at the trough.

aaah, I think we're kinda done here.

 

[Goat]

 

[Pittsburgh Footy]

Handing over trillions of $ to banksters isn't a great legacy to have IMO. It's like in this country describing Gordon Brown as a great statesman for bailing out the City of London with a £500 billion giveaway.

A watered down Affordable Care Act? Hmmmm.

Yes, he was certainly the first black president; and he paved the way in a racist nation for other black members of the economic and political elite to take up their place at the trough.

 

[Martin Alvito]

I too bought into the folklore of Jimmy Carter, and to be sure, I think he had his heart in the right place...he just grew up poor and liked to think that people (i.e., poor people in the USA) could figure stuff out for themselves and not need government assistance, so he proceeded to enact a bunch of social/economic policies that pretty much went against the tide of the New Deal and the sentiments of lots of democrats at the time such as Tip O'Neill. Carter was also obsessed with the growing surburban base, to which he thought his policies would be well received. This wasn't very smart, since it ignored rural and urban Americans. This was all laid out in a great book I read recently called, Chaotic Neutral, which is a recent history of the (floundering) Democrats, as the books' main thesis can be summed up with: Republicans are a party and have pushed an agenda to serve a small special interest base (mostly the wealthy and corporations), while managing to convince a fair amount of rural poor to vote for them; Democrats are a coalition of different agendas, of which the centrists get elected; they have mostly maintained the status quo of one or another policy of previous administrations, including Republican ones (e.g., Obamas continuation of stuff in Lybia/Syria).

More less the way I have described the Democrats in short form for some time. They tack right to get elected, then immediately pull in six different directions over the bedsheets. They tend to continue the policies they inherit because they struggle to collectively agree on the necessary changes.

 

[davek]

He's going to fall asleep again in the debate tomorrow isn't he?

 

[jaspercabbage]

He's going to fall asleep again in the debate tomorrow isn't he?

Donald Trump, who slept through half of his recent trial?