Current Affairs 2020 Democratic Primary

[BlueToff]

Also, forgive my ignorance of US politics.

But, I do like Sanders. Much in the same way as I like Corbyn.

But, now in two successive election cycles, all he seems to have done is preach to the choir, while actually having very little impact overall and actually losing to really poor candidates (Hillary in 2016, and Biden now - if that is the case, or does that look likely etc?).

As me and @LouReedwalkonthewildside were discussing the other day, it seems like him and Corbyn are pretty much the same bloke.

Nice guys, good ideals etc. Next to hopeless when it comes to persuading people who don't think like them.

 

[Ruairi77]

Also, forgive my ignorance of US politics.

But, I do like Sanders. Much in the same way as I like Corbyn.

But, now in two successive election cycles, all he seems to have done is preach to the choir, while actually having very little impact overall and actually losing to really poor candidates (Hillary in 2016, and Biden now - if that is the case, or does that look likely etc?).

As me and @LouReedwalkonthewildside were discussing the other day, it seems like him and Corbyn are pretty much the same bloke.

Nice guys, good ideals etc. Next to hopeless when it comes to persuading people who don't think like them.

The difference is that in 2016 Sanders changed the conversation in American politics. Till then, his policies were considered fringe and extreme, now they have A strong place in the Democratic Party. He has accomplished far more than Corbyn

 

[BlueToff]

The difference is that in 2016 Sanders changed the conversation in American politics. Till then, his policies were considered fringe and extreme, now they have A strong place in the Democratic Party. He has accomplished far more than Corbyn

But it's a Democratic Party which has gone - in some instances - a lot further left than Sanders' politics and it's those voices (particularly the younger crowd) which seem to dominate atm? But it's not achieving anything other than backlash from the majority of voters.

I just see a lot on social media of Corbyn supporters congratulating Bernie etc and all patting each other on the back for no real reason. "At least we were right," even though they're having no real say.

 

[sdk]

Sanders has been very good at galvanizing younger voters (and increasingly Latinos, presumably based on his good sense to put a lot of effort into bilingual and Latino-focused messaging), and his emphasis on the grassroots has allowed him to help build what may prove to be an enduring movement. Unfortunately he was less willing or able (I'm still not sure which) to cultivate other, older demographics, which is to say, the demographics most likely to actually show up to cast a vote. Perhaps his politics is as adversarial as his rhetoric suggests, but populist and quasi populist appeals have historically relied upon dividing the populace into good people and evil people and whipping up the fury of the former at the latter. Obviously there's an analog here with Trump's campaign appeals, though his mode is more culture warrior than class warrior.

I'm hopeful that the organizing the Sanders campaign has done in recent years has had a lasting effect on the Overton Window, so called, and set the stage for a maturing left demographic of the near future. Then we'll have a better chance at securing a more equitable society.

 

[riddick]

Most Republicans wouldn't vote for a Democrat regardless but Hillary Clinton was the subject of unusually widespread and vitriolic hatred.

Thirty-year-long smear campaigns work. When people talk about Clinton being a particularly bad person or motivated primarily by greed or lust for power, my first guess is that they've been suckered by sustained propaganda and I worry for their futures.

She was the literal definition of a carpet bagger in New York. Never had any property or anything in the state until she decided to run for Senate.

 

[Death]

If anyone can understand Bernie bros not voting for bad touch Biden it has to be the lizard Lads.

 

[Death]

Also, forgive my ignorance of US politics.

But, I do like Sanders. Much in the same way as I like Corbyn.

But, now in two successive election cycles, all he seems to have done is preach to the choir, while actually having very little impact overall and actually losing to really poor candidates (Hillary in 2016, and Biden now - if that is the case, or does that look likely etc?).

As me and @LouReedwalkonthewildside were discussing the other day, it seems like him and Corbyn are pretty much the same bloke.

Nice guys, good ideals etc. Next to hopeless when it comes to persuading people who don't think like them.

Biden and Clinton have the whole party and mainstream media behind them. Most of thier supporters where an older generation drunk on cnn.

 

[BlueToff]

Biden and Clinton have the whole party and mainstream media behind them. Most of thier supporters where an older generation drunk on cnn.

Yeh but that's just exactly the same as the narrative with Corbyn here. 'Media, everything against him etc'

It's all well and good being 'right' but if you only preach to the choir it's largely pointless.

 

[tsubaki]

Most Republicans wouldn't vote for a Democrat regardless but Hillary Clinton was the subject of unusually widespread and vitriolic hatred.

Thirty-year-long smear campaigns work. When people talk about Clinton being a particularly bad person or motivated primarily by greed or lust for power, my first guess is that they've been suckered by sustained propaganda and I worry for their futures.

there is a lot of truth to that, but it should also be said that she was a bad candidate, with worse surrogates and her campaign was rancid

 

[Death]

Yeh but that's just exactly the same as the narrative with Corbyn here. 'Media, everything against him etc'

It's all well and good being 'right' but if you only preach to the choir it's largely pointless.

But they don’t have the platform to preach. the message from sanders and Corbyn and the choir they are preaching to are the majority of the people. working people. But the system has them hypnotised. It sounds like a conspiracy theory but it’s plain to see just turn the tv on. It’s out in the open.

 

[Grinch]

Oh boy here we go

 

[Death]

Hate to say it because I love Bernie but Trump is going to show him how to take down an opponent.

 

[sdk]

there is a lot of truth to that, but it should also be said that she was a bad candidate, with worse surrogates and her campaign was rancid

I thought so too, but she went and won the popular vote regardless. And in the summing-up "she-ignored-their-cries-of-economic-distress" punditry, everyone seemed to overlook that she won the overall working-class vote: It was just the white segment that went for Trump instead. (In that connection, references to her failure with the "white working class" quickly got trimmed down to "working class" in the media when it should've been trimmed down to "white." Her election bid didn't founder on class, but on race.)

Regardless, so much mythology has accreted around Hillary Clinton that I have to approach pretty much any claim about her alleged nefarious doings with a fistful of salt. Far less mythology of evildoing has attached itself to her husband, who was an actual two-term president and got impeached. Wonder why that is...

 

[sdk]

She was the literal definition of a carpet bagger in New York. Never had any property or anything in the state until she decided to run for Senate.

True enough. Do you oppose that on principle or do you think she was a bad senator for NY?

I'm ambivalent about carpetbagging (in that sense of carpetbagging). As I recall, the Constitution requires a senator to have been a US citizen for at least 9 years (I think?) but only requires them to be resident in that particular state by the time of the election, so presumably the founders assumed a fair number of senators would be fairly new to their constituencies. Where the House was the representative body of "the people," senators were expected to exercise their own discretion much more, with less direct attention to the specific desires of the state's populace. To some degree that distinction still holds, though today all political rhetoric is more democratic/populistic than it was at the end of the 18th century.

 

[Prevenger17]

Hate to say it because I love Bernie but Trump is going to show him how to take down an opponent.

Aye, but Bernie has made his career off being relatively honourable and consistent. Trump's strategy of being a complete clown whose every sentence is either a lie or incomprehensible gibberish wouldn't work for him. And there's no real accomplishment in having a cult of die-hard morons hang on to your every word, plenty of people have made a living off it in the US