Flags

[Blue Roo]

Rather than debate whether or not the flags worked we should focus on why they were needed in the first place. We must be one of the quietest teams in the Premiership at times but then also one of the loudest. It feels like if the team doesn't bother then why should we, rather than let's get behind our boys vocally no matter what.
If you're too cool for flags then fine, but do something else. Doing nothing during the game is far worse. Im not a season ticket holder & can only get to a couple of games a season usually so i don't know the guys sitting around my seat but if each pocket of fans can have an attitude change & show full support for the full 90 then I'm sure the atmosphere would be a hell of a lot better & with that comes a response from the team.
If you want no flags then sing, clap & cheer all game or else you are the reason there are flags.

Couldn't disagree more.
Are you saying if the lads are playing woeful football we should continue to 'sing, clap and cheer all game'.
What your're wanting is not real.
Sure it can be manufactured, all these things can be orchestrated to make you feel better, you can go there simply to be entertained
but why risk losing what it is.

Take the Watford match. There existed a genuine discourse between players and fans.
In the first half the clapping and cheering wasn't just a case of generating excitement for us to enjoy.
In those claps and cheers was a dialogue with the players.

Embedded in those claps and cheers was a knowledge of football, an acknowledgment of good play, an understanding side's current progress, and deep in there, a historical acknowledgment of what is going on now living with what has gone before.
In the second half the exasperation, groans and frustrations was no more or no less real.

There is a big difference between that the line of respect that should never be crossed between players and supporters, ie bile and hatred has no place. But lets not lessen the authenticity of the dialogue by being scared of that line.

Could go on about this for ages but suppose just want to say
when players finally come good, I want it to be authentic, not a manufactured, faux safe environment where supporters simply come to be entertained and players simply come for the money.
At least for now, Everton imo, still maintains this authenticity.

 

[Hibbo]

I hope it was environmentally friendly biodegradable plastic.

 

[Seathestars]

More flags please, cheer leaders, fireworks, the 'kin lot

 

[Toffee in Jandals]

I hope it was environmentally friendly biodegradable plastic.

Seems like a relatively insignificant thing, but I agree. Would be great if Everton could back up all the fantastic work by EitC by being a "green" organisation as much as possible.

That said, to someone watching on TV from the other side of the world, I thought the flags looked fantastic as the players came out. I had my doubts about it but fair dues, it didn't look naf, just looked like who we are - a passionate, supportive fanbase. Who love a good moan (just joking, kind of )

 

[dvm2378]

I was cringing when I seen the vid on twitter on Friday night of the flags ready. Once in the ground I have to admit I thought it looked spot on & even the flames didn't bother me as much. My only problem was with the announcement telling us when to wave, just don't do that!! ha. btw I didn't wave but fellas & kids by me in the Park End loved it so good on them. Fair play to the originals lads, atmosphere has gone up levels since they have got involved

 

[jonesey10]

People moaning about wearing your club colours, people moaning about waving flags. have a day off lads, it's a bit of fun, my 10 year old lad loved it and so did I.
I don't get to see the blues play too much as I live down south now but the sirens and the flags and then z cars and the roar brought I tear to my eye.
I absolutely adore this club and a group of lads that took a lot of time out to try and make a difference gets my support.

 

[ToffeeLee1878]

How can anyone have anything against this ...since the originals have got involved the atmosphere has been sensational
And it’s absolutely no coincidence Everton’s home form has been remarkable since .it fires the fans up,it fires the players up and opposition teams know there walking into a bear pit,it was a pleasure to be amongst it on Saturday

 

[Big Neville Southall]

There's nothing worse than some suit coming up with an idea for the sake of it, to justify its own existence and paycheck
while the thought police are herding, the ninny nannies tut tutting, the crowd baa baaing.
That's not Everton, it has to be real, has to be organic.

Who leads this stuff? much better for it to be a supporter group, but they can end up in'corporate'd as well.

The thing is, when they walk out on that pitch, it's the players, manager (and now the dof) that lead
they represent the spirit of the club and the supporters respond - discourse between supporters and players
things may have got a bit a toxic, went a bit far at times, but it was at least real
(off the pitch its a bit more club and community that lead)

You wouldn't have had the last derby if it wasn't real.
I wasn't at Goodison for the derby, so tell me I'm wrong, or for stating the obvious, but everyone is up for derby day.
Had only won 4 of the last 14 and chance to turn the season around and gain back some spirit.
Toxic discourse put aside, players and supporters united, energy and intent as one
(and the chance to scupper the RS chances of a title as a bonus)

And the behind the scenes came to the party as well with the sirens/zcars.
In that moment it wasn't contrived, rather the idea of the sirens, uniquely, creatively, rose up to meet and match the existing energy
In that moment the fume wafted away and imo a bit of folklore was left in its place.
And 6 wins and 2 draws out of 9 followed.

Point is, kept it real, allow for these moments to happen.
No corporate should seek to control it. Other clubs have lost their way and its very hard to get it back.
Brands nod to supporters re Gomes is shows a healthy discourse all round.

We need corporate to run a healthy business. And it can done without supporters being treated as consumers, commodities and as things to be herded around. Going by the twitter clip the flags thing looked fun although the flame thing looked a bit of a farce. Whatever the case, we should be vigilant things don't go south...or east or across the park.

The sirens were purposely brought in my the corporate suits as you say, ain this case Evertonians who orkw for o improve the atmosphere, it was not organicbut they

Couldn't disagree more.
Are you saying if the lads are playing woeful football we should continue to 'sing, clap and cheer all game'.
What your're wanting is not real.
Sure it can be manufactured, all these things can be orchestrated to make you feel better, you can go there simply to be entertained
but why risk losing what it is.

Take the Watford match. There existed a genuine discourse between players and fans.
In the first half the clapping and cheering wasn't just a case of generating excitement for us to enjoy.
In those claps and cheers was a dialogue with the players.

Embedded in those claps and cheers was a knowledge of football, an acknowledgment of good play, an understanding side's current progress, and deep in there, a historical acknowledgment of what is going on now living with what has gone before.
In the second half the exasperation, groans and frustrations was no more or no less real.

There is a big difference between that the line of respect that should never be crossed between players and supporters, ie bile and hatred has no place. But lets not lessen the authenticity of the dialogue by being scared of that line.

Could go on about this for ages but suppose just want to say
when players finally come good, I want it to be authentic, not a manufactured, faux safe environment where supporters simply come to be entertained and players simply come for the money.
At least for now, Everton imo, still maintains this authenticity.

Sirens were a manufactured attempt to improve the atmosphere and theyve had great feedback.
Also singing isnt just done out of celebration its done as a way of encouragement to the team when they are struggling

 

[evertonandchelmsford]

The flags wont be for every game, no one is forced to pick them up and wave them if you don't want to. It certainly added to the vibrancy and colour of the atmosphere pre match I thought it looked great and then on the train back to London after lots of kids took the flags back with them so more importantly added to their experience and enjoyment.

 

[peteblue]

I was never a big fan of flags or whatever, but I saw the effect they had upon Leicester City and their fans as they won the league. It generates a bit of emotion, fun and colour and I quite like it.......

 

[Connor mcloud]

I wasn’t up for all the flags myself, but there seemed to be a lot more kids in the lower bullens and everyone of them were smiling and excited about the whole thing. That’s what we all want, get the next generation in and because they enjoy it they’ll come again

 

[Blue Roo]

The sirens were purposely brought in my the corporate suits as you say, ain this case Evertonians who orkw for o improve the atmosphere, it was not organicbut they
Sirens were a manufactured attempt to improve the atmosphere and theyve had great feedback.
Also singing isnt just done out of celebration its done as a way of encouragement to the team when they are struggling

Sirens are great, the flags for the first day at goodison were good and reckon the people working behind the scenes must be of the 'authentic' variety from most things seen and heard. As for the singing, to lift the lads when struggling, bring it on.

I was talking about how the authenticity and genuine discourse between players and supporters can be lost. The line can be crossed without knowing it and can ebb away pretty quickly after that. The fans end up being reduced to consumers, the experience of consumption rather than of support.

One of the ways that happens is appointing corporate positions where the person make decisions bc its their job, makes decisions to justify their existence, makes decisions bc it pays the bills at home. Despite all the good intentions wrapped up in them, the question never gets asked, do we need to actually do anything - obviously, no. And as the cogs get turning, more and more decisons are made, the bureaucracy roots itself in, and with each revolution the the authenticity wanes. The off switch is under lock and the keys get thrown away.

What you'll get is the morally weighted justifications too, like it adds to the family atmosphere, the kids love it.
Well contrast that with standing waist height to your dad, back in the day.
Do the decisions of the modern corporate world today make any more or less exciting and real for your kids than they did back then.
Kids in fact need more authenticity, a place and experience, en masse, where things are stripped back, more now than ever.
Its one of the strengths of the football community that it can still deliver that.

For me football still holds the authencity that art does (in more ways than one). There may be a shed load of money in both but the relationship and dialogue between artist and viewer, team and supporters remains pure, if its let done so.

The was no herding or razzle dazzle in the idea of sirens, it rose to meet, match and add to the exiting energy. It was creative, unique, a great idea that did justice to the occasion. Nailed it. It enters folklore and lives on.
Does corporate keep reproducing in different ways for the sake of it?
Or as they say, is less is more?

Also, on a related matter from a previous post, its concerning supporters banners were rolled up during the match.
It'll be gone before you know it!

 

[Joey66]

I get it now not the natural fan fetching a flag or a banner so we now have rehearsed smaller flags that the other lot ?
One large banner one in the Gladwys street would have been more eye catching - Maybe different themes each game a large banner held a loft as those small flags looked a wee bit cheesy imo!
Also fetch any of our songs back pre kick off as it used to be ......

 

[mightyblues78]

I get it now not the natural fan fetching a flag or a banner so we now have rehearsed smaller flags that the other lot ?
One large banner one in the Gladwys street would have been more eye catching - Maybe different themes each game a large banner held a loft as those small flags looked a wee bit cheesy imo!
Also fetch any of our songs back pre kick off as it used to be ......

the lads have plenty of flag's for GS this season, some are great as well

 

[Joey66]

the lads have plenty of flag's for GS this season, some are great as well

That's great as I stated a natural flag or banner or even one draped over the street end stand is far better than those cheesy ones waved at the beginning of the game on Saturday, also what ever happened to an anthem being sung at the time before kick of - It used to be We shall not be moved - as we are moving, maybe it's a Grand old team to play for may be nice to get the atmosphere going.......