Defending Set Pieces

anton66 · February 4, 2019

Bring back man to man marking.

Tel001 · February 4, 2019

Defending....? Set pieces...? Yeah... sound like a good idea, we should try it

Efctrueblue · February 4, 2019

Nymzee said:
That’s called man marking mate - we don’t do that.

Yes i know, but we should! Whatever we are doing is clearly not up to the task

davek · February 4, 2019

nsno-chris said:
In a fairness Dave, most Sunday league players would thrive in Portugal and Greece it’s not hardly a stick to compare the goal threat over there to here.

The most common denominator is his PL record, if you’re saying he’s never had the players surely the simple answer is changing the system

I dont think you can compare apples with pears like that. Whatever the league is then the standard of player is the standard of player. It's like saying that the tallest men in Vietnam are not the tallest men because they'd only be of average height if they lived in Holland where the tallest people in Europe live.

If you keep a tidy defence in a league anywhere it bears comment. He's obviously not adjusting his defensive game plan to cope with the rigours of the English PL.

nsno-chris · February 4, 2019

davek said:
I dont think you can compare apples with pears like that. Whatever the league is then the standard of player is the standard of player. It's like saying that the tallest men in Vietnam are not the tallest men because they'd only be of average height if they lived in Holland where the tallest people in Europe live.

If you keep a tidy defence in a league anywhere it bears comment. He's obviously not adjusting his defensive game plan to cope with the rigours of the English PL.

Disagree, an example: in Portugal and Greece opponents could have had 30 clear cut chances per game against his teams but the quality of the striker skewed the stats. By no means is this true, but a clear example of how the quality does determine the outcome.

Having Richarlison man mark (as some have stated) a 6’5” Raul Jimenez says a lot about the thought process of Silva. Having JJK mark Harry Maguire another example

davek · February 4, 2019

nsno-chris said:
Disagree, an example: in Portugal and Greece opponents could have had 30 clear cut chances per game against his teams but the quality of the striker skewed the stats. By no means is this true, but a clear example of how the quality does determine the outcome.

Having Richarlison man mark (as some have stated) a 6’5” Raul Jimenez says a lot about the thought process of Silva. Having JJK mark Harry Maguire another example

But these are all unknowables, unless you have great intelligence of all leagues. Itls like comparison of generations: it's impossible, you just have to say what's best in each era - and so too leagues.

Also on the marking: mismatches occur all over the PL, but the difference is taking space and not surrendering it and making it difficult for attackers to get off the ground. Zonal works for some teams, but you have to have players savvy enough to make it work...and a GK who knows precisely when to help out or stay on their line...rather than all the time staying on the line.

I offer no excuse for the mess at the back on set pieces. Someone is not doing their job. I just think that context is also required. Silva takes the bulk of the blame though. However, my contestattion is that he's not by nature a manager who neglects defensive duties.

spectateur · February 4, 2019

PhilM said:
Yet they’re not attacking the ball when it reaches their ‘zone’, hence the problems. It’s not zonal marking that is the issue, rather it’s how we’re not doing it.

City use the system don't they? It failed when Arse got their goal yesterday. Even with top players its not 100%.

BernieH · February 4, 2019

davek said:
But these are all unknowables, unless you have great intelligence of all leagues. Itls like comparison of generations: it's impossible, you just have to say what's best in each era - and so too leagues.

Also on the marking: mismatches occur all over the PL, but the difference is taking space and not surrendering it and making it difficult for attackers to get off the ground. Zonal works for some teams, but you have to have players savvy enough to make it work...and a GK who knows precisely when to help out or stay on their line...rather than all the time staying on the line.

I offer no excuse for the mess at the back on set pieces. Someone is not doing their job. I just think that context is also required. Silva takes the bulk of the blame though. However, my contestattion is that he's not by nature a manager who neglects defensive duties.

It would be a lot easier not to look long and hard at Marco if his Watford and Hull records from set pieces wasn't the same.

kenada_blue · February 4, 2019

spectateur said:
City use the system don't they? It failed when Arse got their goal yesterday. Even with top players its not 100%.

They tend to have 70% of possession and teams rarely get over the half way line against them.

Their system is manageable.

Lanolin · February 4, 2019

spectateur said:
City use the system don't they? It failed when Arse got their goal yesterday. Even with top players its not 100%.

Well nothing's 100% is it? Nobody goes a whole season without conceding a goal.

spectateur · February 4, 2019

Lanolin said:
Well nothing's 100% is it? Nobody goes a whole season without conceding a goal.

Well no of course not. Point is , for comparison, using a zonal marking system, how often do City concede from set pieces compared with us.

BillLovesRoo · February 4, 2019

Have we scored from a corner or a free kick yet this season?
Maybe we are that bad at attacking set pieces that in training the defence are looking great because we are so poor at them
"Look at the defence this week, not conceded a single set piece goal in training, we have cracked it"
Match Day "Oh"

davek · February 4, 2019

BernieH said:
It would be a lot easier not to look long and hard at Marco if his Watford and Hull records from set pieces wasn't the same.

I know. I offer no excuses for his record in the PL on set pieces. There's confusion and a lethargy in the zonal defensive line that cant be excused.

I've seen them line up deep with hardly any distance between GK and backline, and line up further out, so there's a big gap. But there's still that lack of competitiveness over making sure the flight of the ball is dealt with...and the confusion is ramped up even further when there's a second ball in there. It's that bad that I think I'd have had Jagielka back in there in recent weeks, just to see if it made an impact. We need a couple of stoppers like Maguire and Evans at Leicester. I'd be happy with that.

BernieH · February 4, 2019

davek said:
I know. I offer no excuses for his record in the PL on set pieces. There's confusion and a lethargy in the zonal defensive line that cant be excused.

I've seen them line up deep with hardly any disatnce between GK and backline, and line up further out, so there's a big gap. But there's still that lack of competitiveness over making sure the flight of the ball is dealt with...and the confusion is ramped up even further when there's a second ball in there. It's that bad that I think I;d have had Jagielka back in there in recent weeks, just to see if it made an impact. We need a couple of stoppers like Maguire and Evans at Leicester. I'd be happy with that.

The most frutrating thing is in November they looked like they were getting to grips with it. Since the Derby they've become even worse at it. No strong characters in this team.

davek · February 4, 2019

BernieH said:
The most frutrating thing is in November they looked like they were getting to grips with it. Since the Derby they've become even worse at it. No strong characters in this team.

I think that derby is going to go down in folklore as an example of just how fragile Everton have become mentally in the last few years. I have to concede that in the Moyes era this hangover would not have lingered.