2018/19 Kieran Dowell

[Daveysgingerlovechild]

A Niasse type in centre mid?!

Carlton Palmer

 

[Lanolin]

Interesting , my perspective is the opposite, that on GOT the reasonable voices about young players are just drowned out by the continuous denigration of our youngsters to the extent I rarely bother responding these days to anything on the DCL, Kenny, Davies threads , it’s just going to be mostly negative. A good case in point is Tom Davies, a young player who has failed to live up to the expectations we had of him and is too young/ inexperienced/ not good enough to turn this team around on his own. Read any 10 pages on his thread , even when he’s not playing , and he’s clearly the worst player to pull on a Blue shirt in the PL era . Bizzarely people often ended a long rant about him with something like “ if he wasn’t a youngster from Liverpool he’d get more stick” , so I’m not sure what kind of reasonable conversation you were hoping to have.

The two aren't mutually exclusive are they? And nor did I suggest they were. 'Some people' are undoubtedly overly negative towards our young players, just as 'some people' are overly positive, like I said. It just so happens that the person I was responding to in this instance was in the latter camp rather than the former.

 

[blueloon]

The two aren't mutually exclusive are they? And nor did I suggest they were. 'Some people' are undoubtedly overly negative towards our young players, just as 'some people' are overly positive, like I said. It just so happens that the person I was responding to in this instance was in the latter camp rather than the former.

Well it wasn’t what you posted in the one I responded too, where you were clearly saying that people were so biased towards them you couldn’t have a reasonable conversation. I presented a differing view.

“ . I feel like some people are just so biased towards the young lads that it becomes difficult to have a reasonable conversation because they refuse to see when someone isn't producing.”

 

[Lanolin]

Well it wasn’t what you posted in the one I responded too, where you were clearly saying that people were so biased towards them you couldn’t have a reasonable conversation. I presented a differing view.

“ . I feel like some people are just so biased towards the young lads that it becomes difficult to have a reasonable conversation because they refuse to see when someone isn't producing.”

Yes, some people. Not all. I've just explained that I agree the same can be true in reverse, but in this instance I was talking about a poster claiming someone had been man of the match when I felt it was only because they were a young lad rather than because they'd actually had a good game. I did of course preface it with both 'in my opinion' and 'I feel like' so it should be fairly clear that i'm not trying to state it as indisputable fact, but I feel it has some merit.

 

[Barnfred 55]

Well it wasn’t what you posted in the one I responded too, where you were clearly saying that people were so biased towards them you couldn’t have a reasonable conversation. I presented a differing view.

“ . I feel like some people are just so biased towards the young lads that it becomes difficult to have a reasonable conversation because they refuse to see when someone isn't producing.”

Also, I don't think that a post suggesting that we should have had Dowell on the bench as cover for Gomes is being particularly over positive. Nor is saying that he thought he was our best player against Rotherham. It was just an opinion, one that others shared too when you look at the MOTM poll on the match thread.

As regards Gomes, I think most on here would admit that since the derby he has been, at best, average and in some games poor. He really needs resting for a game or 2 but we have nobody else who can do what he does. The poster was suggesting that Dowell could possibly give him that break if he were still here. I'm not sure how effective he would be in that role, but let's face it we couldn't have been much worse in most of those matches. Given that we literally have nobody else that can replace what Gomes brings I don't think his post was at all "unreasonable".

 

[Lanolin]

Also, I don't think that a post suggesting that we should have had Dowell on the bench as cover for Gomes is being particularly over positive. Nor is saying that he thought he was our best player against Rotherham. It was just an opinion, one that others shared too when you look at the MOTM poll on the match thread.

As regards Gomes, I think most on here would admit that since the derby he has been, at best, average and in some games poor. He really needs resting for a game or 2 but we have nobody else who can do what he does. The poster was suggesting that Dowell could possibly give him that break if he were still here. I'm not sure how effective he would be in that role, but let's face it we couldn't have been much worse in most of those matches. Given that we literally have nobody else that can replace what Gomes brings I don't think his post was at all "unreasonable".

Why are you writing a reply which is clearly aimed at me to someone else? Have some faith in your convictions.

I’m not sure how you’ve managed to decide that somebody literally using the sentence ‘i thought he was our best player against Rotherham’ was ‘not saying that he was our best player against Rotherham’ but there you go. Also a bit weird to use a poll in which he got 2% of the man of the match vote and came 8th out of 11 as evidence that it’s not an unpopular view.

 

[Cameron Manning]

Bily was heartbreaking for me. His left foot was a wand at times

The only walking footballer I have ever seen: Billyletdown.

 

[jceverton]

Things like this don't help our young players in my opinion. I stuck up for Dowell after that Rotherham game because I thought he did alright, but how anybody could even have had him in the conversation for man of the match I don't know. I feel like some people are just so biased towards the young lads that it becomes difficult to have a reasonable conversation because they refuse to see when someone isn't producing.

Absolutely zero evidence that you can't have a reasonable conversation with me about Dowell. At the end of the day football is about opinion's, I've clearly got a different opinion on Dowell than you have, so has Joe Role. Big deal. We'll only know which one is right when we look back in ten years time. I did think he was the best Everton player on the night, just shaded it, but that's just my opinion it's not a fact and yes I know it's a minority view.

Interesting , my perspective is the opposite, that on GOT the reasonable voices about young players are just drowned out by the continuous denigration of our youngsters to the extent I rarely bother responding these days to anything on the DCL, Kenny, Davies threads , it’s just going to be mostly negative. A good case in point is Tom Davies, a young player who has failed to live up to the expectations we had of him and is too young/ inexperienced/ not good enough to turn this team around on his own. Read any 10 pages on his thread , even when he’s not playing , and he’s clearly the worst player to pull on a Blue shirt in the PL era . Bizzarely people often ended a long rant about him with something like “ if he wasn’t a youngster from Liverpool he’d get more stick” , so I’m not sure what kind of reasonable conversation you were hoping to have.

Exactly and proved by the fact that Lanolin only criticised my post and made no such criticism of people stating Dowell's has had load of chances and thrown them away when clearly that isn't the situation.

The two aren't mutually exclusive are they? And nor did I suggest they were. 'Some people' are undoubtedly overly negative towards our young players, just as 'some people' are overly positive, like I said. It just so happens that the person I was responding to in this instance was in the latter camp rather than the former.

Yeah I'm positive about Dowell and a lot of young players. You think it was overly positive regarding Dowell, whereas I think you're negative.

Also, I don't think that a post suggesting that we should have had Dowell on the bench as cover for Gomes is being particularly over positive. Nor is saying that he thought he was our best player against Rotherham. It was just an opinion, one that others shared too when you look at the MOTM poll on the match thread.

As regards Gomes, I think most on here would admit that since the derby he has been, at best, average and in some games poor. He really needs resting for a game or 2 but we have nobody else who can do what he does. The poster was suggesting that Dowell could possibly give him that break if he were still here. I'm not sure how effective he would be in that role, but let's face it we couldn't have been much worse in most of those matches. Given that we literally have nobody else that can replace what Gomes brings I don't think his post was at all "unreasonable".

Couldn't of put it better myself, I thought I made some reasonable points and hardly went over the top on this, then you get slammed for being extremely biased and unable to have a reasonable conversation!

 

[Lanolin]

Absolutely zero evidence that you can't have a reasonable conversation with me about Dowell. At the end of the day football is about opinion's, I've clearly got a different opinion on Dowell than you have, so has Joe Role. Big deal. We'll only know which one is right when we look back in ten years time. I did think he was the best Everton player on the night, just shaded it, but that's just my opinion it's not a fact and yes I know it's a minority view.

Exactly and proved by the fact that Lanolin only criticised my post and made no such criticism of people stating Dowell's has had load of chances and thrown them away when clearly that isn't the situation.

Yeah I'm positive about Dowell and a lot of young players. You think it was overly positive regarding Dowell, whereas I think you're negative.

Couldn't of put it better myself, I thought I made some reasonable points and hardly went over the top on this, then you get slammed for being extremely biased and unable to have a reasonable conversation!

I wasn’t intending to be critical of you individually. I was using your post as an example, not meaning that you personally are unreasonable just that it is that type of thing which I find difficult to get on board with. Of course you’re entitled to your opinion, we all are. I made it quite clear that I was only giving mine when I said ‘in my opinion’. I certainly didn’t, as you rather melodramatically put it, ‘slam’ you.

It’s rather disingenuous to suggest that I only picked out your post and not ones saying the opposite. That’s pretty obviously because they had nothing to do with the point at hand. I have acknowledged - twice - that the argument works both ways. I have previously called people out for going OTT when criticising (including in this very thread, about this very performance) but on this occasion I was talking about what I believe to be excessive praise. I think some people say every time one of the young lads play they’re man of the match, even when they’re clearly not, and I don’t think it’s helpful to them. I don’t keep a log of all of everybody’s posts so I apologise if you’re not one of those people, but I stand by the assertion that they exist.

 

[TheBigIguana]

I'm not comparing him to Foden but look at City, personally I think they are being way too cautious with him. In matches they are well up he is getting stoppage time. It's a bit peculiar.

I've not an iota of an idea what point I am trying to make, like.

Probably not the thread for it but I think it is hilarious how people give Pep credit for developing Foden when he hasn't started a Premier League game, only started in the CL after they won the group and pretty much only comes on as a sub in games where City have already gone a few goals ahead. I don't see how constantly playing under zero pressure is good for the kid.

On Dowell I read something before the season that said basically the number of accurate forward passes he plays compares favorably to De Bruyne and a couple of others. It wasn't a long list of names. But that was based on his time at Forest and he lost his place there and didn't play here. I think if he establishes himself in the right set up he can be really good but the way he drifts through games like a young Ozil is concerning.

 

[Eggsyblueskin]

For me there is no way Dowell could stand in for Gomes. Gomes is a far more combative player than Dowell who is by contrast almost anonymous when we do not have possession. You can’t really afford a lightweight player in that position.
When he was at Forest they were struggling at the wrong end of the table and the fans after initially being impressed by his undoubtedly sublime skills also commented on his pronounced tendency to also go missing in games. It was no real surprise that Karanke sacrificed him from that central position to stiffen them defensively nor that he tried to retain him as an offensive player albeit in the less exposed winger role.
In a sense he is something of a neutral player ,what you gain in attacking football you lose defensively and that is not good enough to claim a regular place in a Premier League squad.
I sincerely hope he proves me wrong in the years to come but ,currently, I don’t think he has any future in the top league.

 

[Albro]

For me there is no way Dowell could stand in for Gomes. Gomes is a far more combative player than Dowell who is by contrast almost anonymous when we do not have possession. You can’t really afford a lightweight player in that position.
When he was at Forest they were struggling at the wrong end of the table and the fans after initially being impressed by his undoubtedly sublime skills also commented on his pronounced tendency to also go missing in games. It was no real surprise that Karanke sacrificed him from that central position to stiffen them defensively nor that he tried to retain him as an offensive player albeit in the less exposed winger role.
In a sense he is something of a neutral player ,what you gain in attacking football you lose defensively and that is not good enough to claim a regular place in a Premier League squad.
I sincerely hope he proves me wrong in the years to come but ,currently, I don’t think he has any future in the top league.

The only issue I have with this, is KayD wasn’t playing centrally. He was playing on the right, and he got moved to the left. That was when his form went down and he was ultimately replaced. Zilch to do with trying to shore up defensively.

 

[Lanolin]

The only issue I have with this, is KayD wasn’t playing centrally. He was playing on the right, and he got moved to the left. That was when his form went down and he was ultimately replaced. Zilch to do with trying to shore up defensively.

And the only issue I have with that is that it's completely wrong. He played centrally pretty much all season, but he didn't play 90 minutes after the middle of Feb. Actually I'm lying, I also have an issue with calling him KayD, let's knock that on the head right now.

 

[davek]

And the only issue I have with that is that it's completely wrong. He played centrally pretty much all season, but he didn't play 90 minutes after the middle of Feb. Actually I'm lying, I also have an issue with calling him KayD, let's knock that on the head right now.

It's KOD.

 

[Parker]

It's KOD.

No wonder he looks like a fish out of water in the first team then. Am I right?

Only kidding Dave he ain't that bad.