The capacity for now, and forever, will be 39,572
The capacity for now, and forever, will be 39,572
Disagree Finners.
Fans are rightly passionate and should right to voice their opinion without being sneered at;
Keep seeing people sneer/brush off Evertonians as being audacious/cheeky to actually question an 'expert' - what nonsense.
On capacity he's regularly dangled a carrot of 60,000+
But now, we have Everton with their 99% of fans want a capacity of over 50,000 line followed by Meis downplaying capacity, and about him knowing what size is right for Everton (shouldn't that be dictated to him?!), with him accusing fans of having 'size envy' and pointing to West Ham who inherited a stadium.
The fanbase can't afford to be placid because of the novelty of having someone at the club engage with them on twitter, or because they want access to him for interview.
Urgh...
Totally agree with you here Dan. My concern being that Meis should not be openly engaging fans on social media. He will know the parameters he has to work within including budget , planning and any constraints we are not made aware of yet. He is the designer / architect on this project that will be a flagship for him and his company so I think he can and will produce something we will all be proud of.
I feel we should be pointing fingers and asking questions to Moshiri , Kenwright , Woods & Elstone not the architect.
There could be many reasons for the dampening down of expectations over capacity , maybe they have been" tipped the wink "planning permission would be granted on a certain size , maybe its linked into the ongoing World Heritage Site threats.
As for the cost , any major build will have financial constraints thats why they will have a budget. I am sure a person of Moshiri's standing will have known this for some time.
We as fans have have every right to question the press releases over the last day or two as this is a once in a lifetime project and has to be done right.
But again I dont think Meis is the right person we should be questioning because in reality he is only a paid employee of the club , no matter how much he " gets us ".
Spot on.
EFC78
Player Valuation: £25m
I understand the frustrations to a degree but some need to rein it in a bit with the hysteria. I get the impression some people just love to moan and won't be happy regardless. Not one person will have exactly everything they want at the new stadium and that's part of the problem with fan consultations.
Dan Meis has been positive with the communication with fans overall but I think he's underestimated the significance of certain aspects of it and has lead people on. I don't care personally about the 61,878 thing but tweeting about that and mentioning 60K on a few occasions and now doing a u-turn was a mistake. He needs to realise the fanbase is on edge as it is, and it's pretty underwhelming to be told we are going to be bold and ambitious with the capacity hinting at us reaching the levels of an Arsenal, future Chelsea Stadium, Spurs etc to now them suggesting we will have to make do with a Newcastle sized Stadium, and less than West Ham.
davek
Player Valuation: £150m
He's changed his tune because he wants the job he's been cultivating for so long...cultivating fans and club for the contract.
The big push is on now though for a 50,000-52,000 capacity stadium imo.
57-58,000 imo.
davek
Player Valuation: £150m
Overall the feeling is one of Everton having to almost apologise for its presence down at the docks: to make ourselves as small and unobtrusive as possible so various other parties can be squared off.
In reality we are the biggest institution that will be down there or ever will be down there if we do get this stadium. We have the greater prestige not Cunard or the Port of Liverpool or whatever come day go day projects LCC and Peel have planned to fit into the rest of the dock development. So why should we have to hunker down as if we're a nuisance that has to be hid away?
Bollocks to that, we need to come out roaring on this and to hell with any servility. If we're too big to be there then so be it: we can end this and leave them all in the lurch.
Time this club had people running it who know what we're worth.
In reality we are the biggest institution that will be down there or ever will be down there if we do get this stadium. We have the greater prestige not Cunard or the Port of Liverpool or whatever come day go day projects LCC and Peel have planned to fit into the rest of the dock development. So why should we have to hunker down as if we're a nuisance that has to be hid away?
Bollocks to that, we need to come out roaring on this and to hell with any servility. If we're too big to be there then so be it: we can end this and leave them all in the lurch.
Time this club had people running it who know what we're worth.
davek
Player Valuation: £150m
It should be that as of right to start off with and with a build that leaves us capable of putting another 10,000 on top.
I would love a 60,000 plus stadium as much as anyone, but if you look back at this thread from less than 2 years ago there was still mega levels of fume at the possibility of moving out to Stonecross. This just shows how much expectations have risen in that time.
My view at that time (and it hasn't changed) was that even a 45,000 Kirkby style stadium at the docks would be far preferable than a state of the art 70,000 stadium on the city outskirts.
Whatever is decided on capacity, it is clear that we will end up with something far better than what we were contemplating not so very long ago.
FWIW I reckon it will be about 55,000 but the important thing is it WILL be a focal point on the city skyline.
My view at that time (and it hasn't changed) was that even a 45,000 Kirkby style stadium at the docks would be far preferable than a state of the art 70,000 stadium on the city outskirts.
Whatever is decided on capacity, it is clear that we will end up with something far better than what we were contemplating not so very long ago.
FWIW I reckon it will be about 55,000 but the important thing is it WILL be a focal point on the city skyline.
Stuartisitc1878
Player Valuation: £25m
bang on! reading figures somewhere based on next season alone that we have sold 33thousand season tickets with another 7thousand on the standby list. so lets say that transfers to the new stadium so that's 40k already, plus another 7-10 thousand as overflow, day trippers, non season ticket holders, 3 thousand away seats plus high end seating and corp seating. Anything less than 55-57 thousand and we are seriously underselling our selves.
In all the current mess (or opportunities if you want to be positive) I worry that Moshiri may be having second thoughts as he realises the massive expenditure in running a team as well as trying to get an ambitious stadium built in an ideal location but not ideal for building i.e. we need to fill in docks, WH status, dealing with Peel cowboys etc. I do believe he thought he would "inherit" the Commonwealth Games stadium that would give him a boost in only having to adapt an existing stadium.
He has paid off one failed manager and will hopefully pay off a second soon (What 10m/pair ?) plus he has spent massively on players who haven't performed, will be on great contracts and will be worth maybe half what we paid for, assuming we can get shut.
Any new manager will want his own "management/coaching team" and demand a massive transfer kitty for new players and meanwhile the stadium build cost is only going one way. I remember Alan Sugar at Spurs baulking at the players wages he was a mere millionaire then, billionaire now and lets face it how may employees of Moshiri earn >£100,000/week I bet its not many.
I voted for 50-54 but 55 would be fine to me and like many others have said can we just see some progress, any progress please ?
He has paid off one failed manager and will hopefully pay off a second soon (What 10m/pair ?) plus he has spent massively on players who haven't performed, will be on great contracts and will be worth maybe half what we paid for, assuming we can get shut.
Any new manager will want his own "management/coaching team" and demand a massive transfer kitty for new players and meanwhile the stadium build cost is only going one way. I remember Alan Sugar at Spurs baulking at the players wages he was a mere millionaire then, billionaire now and lets face it how may employees of Moshiri earn >£100,000/week I bet its not many.
I voted for 50-54 but 55 would be fine to me and like many others have said can we just see some progress, any progress please ?
davek
Player Valuation: £150m
It just reeks now to me of Everton being dictated to by other parties who need us as the anchor for the whole dock development but see us as a nuisance they have to endure because if we have any ambitions on stadium size and design it could scare the horses and derail the project.
We really shouldn't be in this position.
Jacko93
Player Valuation: £35m
I'm not sure I agree with a few points here Rob. Moshiri has got experience of being at a club that is developing a new ground before, and as part of that, he and Alisher Usmanov released their thoughts on how it should be done/funded, which align almost entirely to the way Moshiri is doing it now. Also, there was no word of the CWG being in Liverpool in 2022, or even the possibility of Liverpool entering for the chance prior to 2026 before Moshiri came here, so thinking he would inherit a stadium cant be a reason he came in.
Yes, he has spent massively on players who haven't performed, and also managers, but I do think that he has been able to realise his mistakes early enough in the case of Koeman. I just hope he realises his Sam Allardyce shaped mistake before the end of May, and makes amends.
Some other points on the stadium, not directed to you Rob... The orientation of the pitch isn't set by the space available at the site, or the view from each of the stands, it is set more by the path of the sun. Any general uncovered stadium design now would allow the cameras to be situated on a stand that is not affected by bright sunlight, meaning they can get a better picture. Sad but true.
The shape is also set largely by regulations. A 'bowl' shape is much more efficient on creating seating as no seat can be more than 190m from the furthest point of the field of play, which is why you get the sweeping lines with larger/taller/deeper main stands than goal ends etc. It would be interesting to me to see what the capacity capabilities would be if the ground was built using efficiency first stadium design techniques over the need for a 'square' stadium. It would then also be interesting to see what effect that result would have on peoples thoughts on capacity. Maybe they already have an idea from the feedback...
catcherintherye
Player Valuation: £80m
I'll have a look at our average attendance over the last 10 years as that seems a bit low. Even on those figures though, it shows we are well over 90% capacity full for an entire decade. This is a useful metric to say we have potential to grow the fanbase. This is especially true when you consider obstructed views. When they are removed we have probably sold every ticket that is not an obstructed view (which presumably will be what's on sale at the New Ground) for the last 10 years. From a sales perspective it's pretty overwhelming evidence that we have substantially outgrown our current capacity.
The historical argument doesn't really make sense either. They are at times when football was not as well supported as it is today. We were amongst the best supported teams then.
Looking at historical data without understanding the context would be akin to saying Skoda should shut 90% of its branches as it sold less 30 years ago. Or that bear baiting stadiums should be huge as it was popular in the 19th century. You can't view numbers without understanding the wider context they were gathered in.
In the article, there is a clear case identified that when you look at the wider context, 60k is a very reasonable and indeed perhaps even a tad cautious figure for us to look for.
I'm happy for others to build a case for different capacity and I'm not saying I am right, but it's what the data suggests.
