Sam Allardyce

[davids]

No they didn't create the mess. However the mess we were in did not require their hiring in the first place. Desperation because the club's upper management didn't have a coherent contingency strategy for manager when they binned off Koeman is what got these 3 stooges through the door.

If you think these are what is needed at the current time, then fine, that's your choice and I can understand it though I do disagree with it. We were (still are) a basket case of a club, and I don't think that any long term strengthening of the team's organisation has occurred - the return of 2 PL quality full backs would always have happened, though Walcott and Tosun are upgrades, they still would not compensate for the travesty that our defence would have been without Baines and Coleman.

If you think that the Larry, Curly and Mo deserve another season then I disagree wholeheartedly. I will mock and deride these 3 in the belief that it is the only way I have any influence on getting rid of them.

Nowhere did I say they should be here next season.But if you think we'd be on 40 points today with Unsworth...and as I've asked several other posters without a sensible reply,who else could we have realistically have appointed instead of Allardyce at the time?

 

[brieverton]

'A triumph' . You said he hadn't done a single good thing since he got here and I merely pointed out that your statement wasn't very accurate. That result was a positive/good result in the circumstances. It wasn't great, and the performance wasn't anything to shout about, but it was an unexpected point against a very good attacking side who have destroyed teams all season at Anfield. It also came around the time when we were leaking goals for fun.

In 5 of the 6 games prior to him taking charge, we had conceded 4 to Southampton, 5 to Atalanta, 2 to Palace, 2 to Watford and 3 to Lyon. He came in and got us 4 clean sheets in 6 games, and 12 points from 18. I don't know what Everton side you've been watching this season if you think that 12 points from 18 was a given?

His time here can be broken down in to the following:

• His opening 5 or 6 games which I have discussed above - a huge positive in the circumstances which steered us away from any potential trouble.
• Games against the 'top sides' home and away - simply unacceptable. Barely any shots, knife to a gunfight type mentality and humiliations at Spurs and Arsenal.
• Games against sides outside the top 6 at home - excellent record no matter what spin you try and put on it
• Away games in general - awful, negative attitude against sides we should be beating

Points 2 and 4 are why I want him gone as I don't think he is the man to take this club forward. I do however, think he was the sensible choice at the time of his appointment after we just got humiliated by a Southampton side that went 2 months without a league win after putting 4 past Unsworth's Everton side that lost 5 games in 7 before the West Ham victory.

I think that's fair and balanced. He would have had to do an astounding job I feel to be in with a shout of winning over the fans and staying beyond May.

To a degree therefore he gets more than his share of stick but he will be rewarded with a nice pay-off if he leaves.

He got the job when it seemed we had ran out of time and options. I do wonder at times if someone else came in and had an identical record would they get the same stick or would it be a case of being patient considering the mess he inherited.

He has done ok, but not near good enough considering the challenge it was going to be for him from day one.

Bottom line is his face doesn't fit here - partly for justifiable football reasons and partly because a lot of people simply take a strong dislike or even hatred of him.

He might even be judged less harshly with the passage of time and/or if his successor finds things similarly difficult, though let's hope it's not due to the latter.

 

[peteblue]

I really hate this idea he has kept us up.

He didn’t......he just happened to be here at the time.....

 

[EFC78]

He might even be judged less harshly with the passage of time and/or if his successor finds things similarly difficult, though let's hope it's not due to the latter.

Agree with your post. With this bit, we're starting to see it a bit with Moyes' time here to an extent. Some are incapable of having a balanced view so write off his time here as us playing boring football and then use his failings since leaving Everton to strengthen their argument.

But whilst Everton manager, Moyes did a very good job and I personally miss the stability we had with him there, and felt a far stronger connection to the players. He was frustrating with some things, but also had a lack of resources to work with that all our managers since have had the luxury of. With more money at the back of him, who knows where we could have got to.

We're now facing uncertain times with a squad of players that we aren't convinced are really that committed to the club and a manager situation where Moshiri could easily get it wrong again.

 

[peteblue]

Nowhere did I say they should be here next season.But if you think we'd be on 40 points today with Unsworth...and as I've asked several other posters without a sensible reply,who else could we have realistically have appointed instead of Allardyce at the time?

Either Unsworth or Koeman would have got at least the same number of points. Both had to deal with additional European games with key injuries and bedding in new players. Allardyce picked up a side that had just battered West Ham and then had the good fortune to see both of our regular full backs return. He has done nothing, zilch, nada, pay him off and get shut then let’s try to get him out of our memories......

 

[Bullet]

The guy who I think used to post as WRD1878 has claimed that Sam will be here next season or at least his managent team are confident that's the case. Moshiri will decide obviously so we'll see. He also claims Sam'll be given substantial funds and will target Luke Shaw amongst others. Try not to get too excited.

 

[YoboCopter]

Came in kept us up with ease ( as expected but still done it) gets paid alot for it, both go are seperate ways and no hard feelings

Thats my view

 

[COYBL25]

Either Unsworth or Koeman would have got at least the same number of points. Both had to deal with additional European games with key injuries and bedding in new players. Allardyce picked up a side that had just battered West Ham and then had the good fortune to see both of our regular full backs return. He has done nothing, zilch, nada, pay him off and get shut then let’s try to get him out of our memories......

As has been said many times before, he got an amazing run of luck in first month too - penalties for us and the opposition hitting the woodwork.

That`s not his fault, but it certainly helped mask the fact that we were just as bad during this time, but things went for us.

 

[EFC78]

Either Unsworth or Koeman would have got at least the same number of points. Both had to deal with additional European games with key injuries and bedding in new players. Allardyce picked up a side that had just battered West Ham and then had the good fortune to see both of our regular full backs return. He has done nothing, zilch, nada, pay him off and get shut then let’s try to get him out of our memories......

Koeman's points per game = 0.89
Allardyce's points per game = 1.47

I don't think he would based on that.

 

[Bullet]

Koeman's points per game = 0.89
Allardyce's points per game = 1.47

I don't think he would based on that.

I feel the same about Sam as you do and it's patently obvious if Fonseca had come in instead of Sam and achieved exactly the same results and performances there'd be an entirely different interpretation of events.
Most of the very same people who are slating him would be convinced Paulo was doing a pretty good job turning things around in very difficult circumstances with some uncommitted players and how we'll play more attractive footy next season when he gets some of the dirge out and more of his picks in.

 

[ToffeeTim]

The guy who I think used to post as WRD1878 has claimed that Sam will be here next season or at least his managent team are confident that's the case. Moshiri will decide obviously so we'll see. He also claims Sam'll be given substantial funds and will target Luke Shaw amongst others. Try not to get too excited.

No

 

[paul11]

Koeman's points per game = 0.89
Allardyce's points per game = 1.47

I don't think he would based on that.

I'm sure allardyce's record would be the same if that worse if he had played 4 of the top 6 in the 1st 5 games of the season

 

[brieverton]

I feel the same about Sam as you do and it's patently obvious if Fonseca had come in instead of Sam and achieved exactly the same results and performances there'd be an entirely different interpretation of events.
Most of the very same people who are slating him would be convinced Paulo was doing a pretty good job turning things around in very difficult circumstances with some uncommitted players and how we'll play more attractive footy next season when he gets some of the dirge out and more of his picks in.

I agree with that but I do think Sam has made a fatal error in not trying to get out of the limited mindset he applies to his view of the game and our current standing in the league (I mean that more in a broader sense vis.a vis the Top Six and generally rather than league placing). I do think it had to be a case of safety first but he has not managed the PR side either with the fans or his representation of the club more broadly at all well.

He has gotten himself into some unnecessary conversations about comparisons with Newcastle and West Ham and about "accepting" defeat to Arsenal etc etc

He has done a steady job and as far as keeping us up then its mission accomplished, but to be honest I credited him beforehand with a much greater degree of streetwise thinking than he has shown himself capable of.

Results are the be all and end all - and I'm not rabidly anti-Sam at all, I supported the appointment, but for a man with a high opinion of his own abilities, it has just seemed to me that he hadn't read the script of what is expected here, regardless of reality or our circumstances. Football being what it is, added to the general dislike of him even before he set foot here, meant that he had to get results as well as adapt a more "can-do/will do" attitude rather than a resigned defeatism in certain circumstances.

There is no guarantee at all of course, and as you say, that Fonseca or A.N. Other will come in and do better. But Sam will more than likely be fired because the club and fans still expect better, even after a dreadful season.

 

[Nyhus]

I feel the same about Sam as you do and it's patently obvious if Fonseca had come in instead of Sam and achieved exactly the same results and performances there'd be an entirely different interpretation of events.
Most of the very same people who are slating him would be convinced Paulo was doing a pretty good job turning things around in very difficult circumstances with some uncommitted players and how we'll play more attractive footy next season when he gets some of the dirge out and more of his picks in.

Yep. Sam wasnt my choise either, but most of the crap he gets from people on here just isnt warrented, just very childish.
I dont want him to be our manager next season unless things change a little, but anyone but a blind man can see our team getting slowly better after he took over, not gradually worse like under Koeman and Unsey. Slagging of a manager for stabilizing our team is so silly even if we play boring fotball at times, because Id rather take a boring 1-1 against WestBrom over a raping by the hands of a terrible Soton-side any day of the week. People also seem to ignore how he brought in players we really needed, adding pace, power, assists and good finishing to an extremely unbalanced squad. Tosun was their last scapegoat, but after he started scoring its gotten quiet.
Given time and money, I dont doubt BFSs ability to get us back to being a stable top 6-8 club, but thats not what any of us want. Its not a popular opinion on here, but Sam is really good at what he’s doing, what he’s doing just isnt what I want Everton to be.

 

[4737carlin]

The guy who I think used to post as WRD1878 has claimed that Sam will be here next season or at least his managent team are confident that's the case. Moshiri will decide obviously so we'll see. He also claims Sam'll be given substantial funds and will target Luke Shaw amongst others. Try not to get too excited.

Forgot about him, I'm convinced he is going to still be around, Sam I mean, based purely on the fact Moshiri has no real reason to sack him right now, the fans not liking him wont cut it, this is a results business and when an employee does what you ask him to do, getting the sack doesn't very often follow.
Koeman built a team and it was shocking, this isnt Sams team but the only two players he has added have done well for us, which is going to go in Sams favour

Besides Moshiri came from Arsenal, where the fans have wanted the manager gone for ages, and the club stuck with the man, I really can see us doing the same