ALLARDYCE - Any positives

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uknightbreed said:
my best mate is a hammer and I work with a die hard Newcastle fan.
both say he took over crap , made them better , kept them in the prem and the teams got worse again after he left.
there has also been a lot of callers from both clubs on the radio this past week saying the same.


on bobby robson , a chat I had a long time ago. the Newcastle fan loved him but said the players he bought in were pretty much a let down and it was tough finding much to shout about beyond shearer.
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Errrm you sure your mate is a Newcastle fan mate?

Because frankly i find it hard to think any Newcastle fan would have thought that - he took charge with them sitting in bottom spot in the league, off the back of two 13th place finishes, and that season finished 11th, following one 11th, then they finished 4th, 3rd and 5th in the league for the next three seasons...

Newcastle played in Europe 4 out those 5 seasons and the CL in 2 of those, Beat Juve at St James, reached a European Semi final etc, probably would have done better but form Shearer going down for the season and a bit over his tenure as well.

11th, 11th, 4th, 3rd, 5th finishing league positions with Newcastle - yet you reckon BIG Sam was a better manager for them?
 

I'll go for some positives. He's clearly into man management and the players, much as we berate them, do need this. They also need a trusted person on the training ground they can confide in and not sure that's been the case under Koeman especially with his own brother being coach. Lee and Shakespeare are highly rated and again the players need this. It seems so long since we had progressive coaching at the club. Another positive is that he has an opportunity to deliver some home truths from an impartial viewpoint.

I'd like to say that all the above could happen with any new regime. I'm still going to count the days until he leaves.

bluestevon said:
Bollocks mate, it's a good job worth 6.5m per year to take a team in 13th and 2 points off 9th place up to tenth?

If we must have this cretin at the club, why don't we actually set and demand a target befitting the salary he is being paid - seriously looking at some comments when we appointed him, people acted like 17th would be an achievement and he should be given plaudits if he kept us up.

Set him the goal of overtaking Burnley and Watford at least if your optimistic about him.
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Deffo. About time we set real targets for managers.

bluestevon said:
Mate he was terrible at Newcastle, bought a shed-load of utter dross and over the hill players, loaded the club down massively with those players wages who they couldn't shift out, and when he was sacked they where in as bad a run of results if not worse than when we just sacked Koeman.
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And wasn't Allardyce, Walsh and our head scout all at Newcastle at the time?
 

MickA said:
I'll go for some positives. He's clearly into man management and the players, much as we berate them, do need this. They also need a trusted person on the training ground they can confide in and not sure that's been the case under Koeman especially with his own brother being coach. Lee and Shakespeare are highly rated and again the players need this. It seems so long since we had progressive coaching at the club. Another positive is that he has an opportunity to deliver some home truths from an impartial viewpoint.

I'd like to say that all the above could happen with any new regime. I'm still going to count the days until he leaves.



Deffo. About time we set real targets for managers.



And wasn't Allardyce, Walsh and our head scout all at Newcastle at the time?
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Going into the Anfield derby we should really be sat in 9/10th, so my feeling is - if we have hired him and are only remit is have 6.5m to not let us go down it's akin to a CL team hiring a manager with the remit of getting them into the EL etc, bar set so low that it's a joke.
Give him the target of 7th and the FA Cup, he wanted to manage a big club - heres his chance to show how he was always capable - he should relish the fact that in reality he is at the first club who he's joined who aren't in a relegation scrap (which we aren't)

Yup, Walsh was his head of recruitment, and i think they signed about 13-14 players, some of whom never played for the club, more than half of which where 29+ and only 3 i think who played more than 40 games for the club.

It's the major cause for concern, people with reputations for maybe being a bit dodgy (bit being an understatement) have now got all the power in terms of recruitment and selecting who comes and goes, that is an awful lot of scope for abuse - especially when you have an owner who appears utterly clueless in terms of players values - monopoly money quote etc
 
bluestevon said:
Going into the Anfield derby we should really be sat in 9/10th, so my feeling is - if we have hired him and are only remit is have 6.5m to not let us go down it's akin to a CL team hiring a manager with the remit of getting them into the EL etc, bar set so low that it's a joke.
Give him the target of 7th and the FA Cup, he wanted to manage a big club - heres his chance to show how he was always capable - he should relish the fact that in reality he is at the first club who he's joined who aren't in a relegation scrap (which we aren't)

Yup, Walsh was his head of recruitment, and i think they signed about 13-14 players, some of whom never played for the club, more than half of which where 29+ and only 3 i think who played more than 40 games for the club.

It's the major cause for concern, people with reputations for maybe being a bit dodgy (bit being an understatement) have now got all the power in terms of recruitment and selecting who comes and goes, that is an awful lot of scope for abuse - especially when you have an owner who appears utterly clueless in terms of players values - monopoly money quote etc
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What worries me with this, is we just end up repeating the worst bits of business we did under Koeman, as opposed to the best bits of business we have done.

I don't like Walsh and think he should be removed from his post. However I can't doubt the fact e has a good eye for a player. That was constrained by Koeman insisting on proven, older PL players. That is where we largely came unstuck.

When we have gone for more obscure names, Vlasic, DCL, Gueye, Lookman, Onyekuru, Sandro (for his price) we have done much better in terms of value.

If you end up throwing money at b rate players for huge sums you end up like how Villa did under ONeill or a bit like how they were together at Newcastle.

There can be no excuses now though. They should be on the same page and able to fill the squad positions. I won't be massively enthused if we spend all January trying for Benteke!
 

bluestevon said:
Errrm you sure your mate is a Newcastle fan mate?

Because frankly i find it hard to think any Newcastle fan would have thought that - he took charge with them sitting in bottom spot in the league, off the back of two 13th place finishes, and that season finished 11th, following one 11th, then they finished 4th, 3rd and 5th in the league for the next three seasons...

Newcastle played in Europe 4 out those 5 seasons and the CL in 2 of those, Beat Juve at St James, reached a European Semi final etc, probably would have done better but form Shearer going down for the season and a bit over his tenure as well.

11th, 11th, 4th, 3rd, 5th finishing league positions with Newcastle - yet you reckon BIG Sam was a better manager for them?
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Funny enough this has just been answered on RTG (post #314)
https://www.readytogo.net/smb/threa...allardyce-again.1405288/page-16#post-26654693

Pasted:
At Newcastle he inherited a side that had the likes of; Owen, Martins, Emre, Luque, Dyer, Solano, Duff, N'Zogbia, Milner, and Parker. That is in no way a side that lends itself to long ball football. That is a mobile, inventive, technically good, attacking side. Instead we sold a load of them and knocked it long for Viduka. We were comfortably midtable, had got to the 1/4s of the league cup, 3rd round of the FA cup, the round of 16 in the UEFA Cup, had a better than average defence and so on. He wasn't taking us on as relegation candidates.

His signings were;
Smith, Barton, Geremi - Combative midfielders
Abdoulaye Faye, Cacapa, Rozehnal - Big Strong Lump of a centre half, one and all
Beye, Enrique - to be fair, both good signings, but more defenders.
Viduka - a big strong powerful forward.

He got rid of;
Dyer, Parker, Solano, Luque,
Over one window he turned us into a long ball side and had that long ball football delivered similar "success" as the more attractive football did, I doubt we'd have disliked it so much. But the football was bloody awful and while we were getting results early on it was no surprise when the wheels soon fell off. We gave that Derby side their only win of the season because Allardyce played 3 defensive midfielders against the worst team in Premier League history, then brought on a lump of a centre half for one of those midfielders on the hour mark... lol

@cbwhu could tell you more about the football he played at West Ham, but it was dire at Newcastle and as I said, it's not like he didn't have quality players to play a more refined game.
 
carolinablue232 said:
Funny how people are questioning his recruitment. Look at the players our last two bosses brought in. Also, has he ever been anywhere with resources? Think this could be interesting in a good way.
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Martinez did OK with Lukaku, just for balance. Koeman's picks a very mixed or over priced lot. Can't see the point in Walsh now. But yes, it'll be interesting to see who arrives in Jan. He likes a clean sheet does our Sam... : -)
 

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