SNAP POLL - Unsworth, yes or no?

[LiamG]

I understand the point you're making, I'm just saying I really don't think we're anywhere near as bad (in relative terms) as some are making out. You might take Puncheon but I can absolutely guarantee you that Palace fans would take any of the players I mentioned, so would Bournemouth, Swansea, Burnley, West Brom etc etc. Watford play Tom Cleverley in central midfield and I can tell you 100% that he is not a better footballer than Schneiderlin, Gana, Barkley or Davies. Notwithstanding the circumstances of his departure, Swansea fans would kill for Sigurdsson back because they know he's better than anything they've got now. People need to calm down and accept that while this may not be the season we were hoping for, there's absolutely no reason why it has to be a complete disaster.

Tom Cleverly certainly looked like a better footballer yesterday plus he was a major player for a team that won the premiership for Utd when Schneiderlin couldn't even make a trully awful Utd's bench under two different managers.

In the words of Koeman.

"But ok"

This is going round in circles. The team is poor. Maybe it is better than it's showing. I don't think it is. I think until January this is pretty much as good as it gets.

btw Barkley is gone. I doubt he will play for us again. Sigurdsson is the only one who eventually I would like to see fed back into the team but not now. Right now he has no confidence and won't gain any playing in a struggling team. Useful from the bench if only for his set pieces.

 

[Lanolin]

Tom Cleverly certainly looked like a better footballer yesterday plus he was a major player for a team that won the premiership for Utd when Schneiderlin couldn't even make a trully awful Utd's bench under two different managers.

In the words of Koeman.

"But ok"

This is going round in circles. The team is poor. Maybe it is better than it's showing. I don't think it is. I think until January this is pretty much as good as it gets.

btw Barkley is gone. I doubt he will play for us again.

Yes. Which kind of proves the original point I was making, that coaching and tactics plays a big part in how things pan out. I've seen enough of Cleverley and Gana to know that Gana is much the better player, but Silva's tactical set up was far superior to Unsworth's yesterday and allowed Cleverley the chance to get on the ball in that midfield. That's why I think we need a manager with tactical nous, rather than just a firefighter who will 'get the lads fired up' or 'let them know what Everton means'.

As an aside, Cleverley was absolutely not a 'major player' for United, he made 18 starts the season he got a league winners medal (a great achievement don't get me wrong) and they even brought Paul Scholes out of retirement so that they didn't need to play him any more. Schneiderlin played 25 games in his first season at United, more than Cleverley managed in any of the seven seasons he spent at the club. I'm not a Schneiderlin fan to be honest, but he had more good games for us between January and May last year than Cleverley did in all the time he was here.

 

[Seathestars]

As much as I like him he is in a way his own worst enemy, doing a fantastic job with the kids and should stay there.

 

[LiamG]

Yes. Which kind of proves the original point I was making, that coaching and tactics plays a big part in how things pan out. I've seen enough of Cleverley and Gana to know that Gana is much the better player, but Silva's tactical set up was far superior to Unsworth's yesterday and allowed Cleverley the chance to get on the ball in that midfield. That's why I think we need a manager with tactical nous, rather than just a firefighter who will 'get the lads fired up' or 'let them know what Everton means'.

As an aside, Cleverley was absolutely not a 'major player' for United, he made 18 starts the season he got a league winners medal (a great achievement don't get me wrong) and they even brought Paul Scholes out of retirement so that they didn't need to play him any more. Schneiderlin played 25 games in his first season at United, more than Cleverley managed in any of the seven seasons he spent at the club. I'm not a Schneiderlin fan to be honest, but he had more good games for us between January and May last year than Cleverley did in all the time he was here.

All of that takes time to coach. Without a pre-season do you really expect any manager to be able to do what you suggest.

In fact the managers who you would want (we probably agree on this) wouldn't come here for that reason. Look at De Boer. He went to Inter, didn't have a pre-season and was brought in at the last minute but was only given 8 games. His last game with them (if memory serves) he even said that was the first time his team started playing the way he wants. Similar thing happened at Palace and then they got rid and are no better of in terms of performances with Roy at the helm. Now his career is all but finished. A decent up and coming manager would be crazy to take us over now.

They will come in the summer so we should try to aim to make it until then otherwise we will be stuck with Dyche or Big Sam for the next 3 or more years. Look how long Moyes lasted.

 

[Joey66]

As much as I like him he is in a way his own worst enemy, doing a fantastic job with the kids and should stay there.

It was the kids who changed the game for us when the overpaid oap were subbed!

 

[Addo]

Someone, somewhere said the Mosh wants Fat Sam and Shakespeare as his number 2. Ha, ha, ha, nervous twitch, nauseous.

 

[jceverton]

You're stating things as if they're facts there mate when they are just your opinion and actually have very little to support them.

Why does he 'deserve' time? He's caretaker manager and has to prove that he's up to doing the job full time, he doesn't just get a season long audition because he used to play for us, we need to choose the best candidate for the job, whoever it is. There's no reason at all why a new manager has to be a panic move - giving the job to Unsworth simply because he happens to be already at the club would seem far more panicky than going through a full selection process and choosing the best candidate.

Of course it's opinion but it's based on the facts of what happened at Palace. The point that you and @ryanbeno80 we're making is that Unsworth isn't up to the job because he hasn't achieved certain things. I have pointed out that Allardyce didn't achieve those things at Palace over 7 games. Given that Allardyce was the example used to justify the failure to organise defence, defend set pieces etc by Unsworth I'd say my opinion is actually backed up by some facts!

I'm certainly not advocating him being given the job full time at the minute. The fact is that there are not many managers available right now. Like transfers you generally have more chance of getting the best managers in the summer not in November.

So why does he deserve time:

• No manager can turn around a team in 4 games/12 days - see Allardyce at Palace.
• He knows the players, particularly the young players
• He's improved the spirit and energy of the team. We haven't come from 2-0 down at home for 23 years!
• He's a very good coach and a good coach is what we require to get the team organised and playing.
• He understands the demands of the club.
• He won't stand for any messing about - see Mirallas and Schneiderlin.
• We stand a better chance of getting a good manager in the summer.

In the circumstances I think he's doing a decent job, you may disagree but I think you're wrong.

 

[jceverton]

Firstly fella, I didn't compare Unsworths first 4 games with what you would expect from Allardyce, I compared it against my own opinion of the progress I'd expect to see in 4 games.

You are getting confused with me comparing the vacant Everton managers job with the type of job an Allardyce or Pulis would take.

Seens as you don't agree with my opinion, can you tell me why is it deluded to expect better defensive set up from set pieces, more organisation and more balanced team selection in 4 games?

I didn't say it should be the complete product but it's certainly not unfeasible to work on and begin to implement philosophies on shape and defending set pieces in even a few sessions.

You made the direct comparison with Unsworth failing to improve the team enough in 4 games/12 days with what Allardyce would do when he took over a failing team. I have pointed out that it takes more than 4 games to do this and used the example of Allardyce at Palace when the situation actually got worse defensively over 7 games before it improved. Not sure there's a lot to add, your argument is flawed as is your example.

 

[jceverton]

All of that takes time to coach. Without a pre-season do you really expect any manager to be able to do what you suggest.

In fact the managers who you would want (we probably agree on this) wouldn't come here for that reason. Look at De Boer. He went to Inter, didn't have a pre-season and was brought in at the last minute but was only given 8 games. His last game with them (if memory serves) he even said that was the first time his team started playing the way he wants. Similar thing happened at Palace and then they got rid and are no better of in terms of performances with Roy at the helm. Now his career is all but finished. A decent up and coming manager would be crazy to take us over now.

They will come in the summer so we should try to aim to make it until then otherwise we will be stuck with Dyche or Big Sam for the next 3 or more years. Look how long Moyes lasted.

Exactly, nail on head. Anyone who thinks that Unsworth doesn't know anything tactically doesn't watch the U23's play on a regular basis imo.

 

[Lanolin]

Of course it's opinion but it's based on the facts of what happened at Palace. The point that you and @ryanbeno80 we're making is that Unsworth isn't up to the job because he hasn't achieved certain things. I have pointed out that Allardyce didn't achieve those things at Palace over 7 games. Given that Allardyce was the example used to justify the failure to organise defence, defend set pieces etc by Unsworth I'd say my opinion is actually backed up by some facts!

I'm certainly not advocating him being given the job full time at the minute. The fact is that there are not many managers available right now. Like transfers you generally have more chance of getting the best managers in the summer not in November.

So why does he deserve time:

• No manager can turn around a team in 4 games/12 days - see Allardyce at Palace.
• He knows the players, particularly the young players
• He's improved the spirit and energy of the team. We haven't come from 2-0 down at home for 23 years!
• He's a very good coach and a good coach is what we require to get the team organised and playing.
• He understands the demands of the club.
• He won't stand for any messing about - see Mirallas and Schneiderlin.
• We stand a better chance of getting a good manager in the summer.

In the circumstances I think he's doing a decent job, you may disagree but I think you're wrong.

I do think he's doing a decent job. As a caretaker I would expect him to make a few changes, shake things up and get some points on the board. Yesterday was a good result, and he deserves credit for the changes he made and the positivity showed even at 2-2.

To answer your points though:

1. No manager? Really? There are no examples at all of a manager coming in and changing things immediately? Just of the top of my head I can think of Moyes winning his first 2 games with a side that had won 1 in 13 (and scoring 6 goals in those 2 games, the same amount as we had scored in the 13) and Joe Royle going 5 unbeaten and not conceding a goal when taking over a side marooned at the bottom of the league.

2. Yes, that's true. Difficult to say whether it's a good or a bad thing I think, sometimes you may have preconceptions or favourites and a fresh pair of eyes might see things differently.

3. Has he? We've completely folded in 2 of the 4 games he's managed. He also appears to have fallen out with Mirallas, Schneiderlin and Vlasic, and frozen out Sandro and Klaassen. We'll have to wait and see whether spirit has improved I think.

4. I agree it's what we need. I'll be honest and say I don't know how good he is as a coach as I've never seen him take a session or seen players before and after they've worked with him. If you have then fair enough.

5. I'm not really sure that means anything. Does he understand the demands of being a first team manager, the scrutiny, the spotlight, the egos, the booing etc?

6. Again, can be both a good and bad thing. I'm all for discipline but you have to get the balance right. Also worth pointing out the reports suggest it was Ferguson who wouldn't take messing rather than him.

7. Unsubstantiated opinion. Of our last 4 managerial appointments, by far the best was the one made mid-season. Alex Ferguson was appointed mid-season. I honestly can't see the list of candidates being much different in the summer, unless a stand out option resigns or is sacked between now and then.

 

[blueinsa]

It might be easy to get carried away with emotion as he's 'homegrown' and yesterday's comeback was pretty special. Worth bearing in mind though, that until mid way through the second half yesterday he was probably the worst caretaker since Ian Huntley.

 

[Blue 1]

Love Rhino, but I don't think he's passed the audition this time.

 

[raib]

NO thanks - we were lucky won yesterday - have no problem Unsworth being a number 2 with Big Sam (as Unsworth can learn his trade then).

Just hope board have enough sense and not go with Unsworth as the manager.

 

[evertonarntwe]

nope

good man but not just the results but his tactics and selections have been niave

would have been 4 losses out of 4 if gomes never went off yesterday because until that point we were pretty horrific again

 

[Michael Tsui]

All of that takes time to coach. Without a pre-season do you really expect any manager to be able to do what you suggest.

It doesn't take too much coaching to insist on a deep line, and with our players totally unsuited to such a system today, its baffling that we are still suicidal at back - either Rhino picked the wrong priorities, or he isn't that good in tactical coaching. Judging from Baningime's good personal performance even when positionally super suspect I would suggest the later.