Ronald Koeman discussion

[windymiller]

I can understand the logic behind sacking managers if you're convinced you have a better option lined up and have a better plan short term and long term to succeed. I honestly don't see how sacking a manager is always better for the club.

Take a look at Leicester, won the title, got to CL then their struggles were on the cards just like we did in CL under Moyes. So they go ahead and sack the man who got them their cos they wanted to look like some "big shot" ambitious club. Who did they go for? Oh yeah Craig Shakspear! The man they thought would be better cos he knows the club. They gave him money to spend and still they are lying in bottom 3. One of their big signings, Adrien Silva is in a limbo and I'm sure their fans would blame Shakspear for that too. Now they have sacked the manager who they gave a permanent deal in June to again look like "ambitious". Can someone tell me how sacking a manager like Ranieri and replacing him with Shakspear was ambitious? And their fans will be happy to see the club sack the manager. Cos that's what modern fans want. Just sack the bloody idiot and we'll be alright. Who will they now get in? Allardyce maybe? And how far can anyone else take them? Maximum 11th or 10th I bet. Is that ambitious enough for them? Or do they think they automatically deserve to be among the top 8 cos they won the title by some heavenly intervention a couple of years ago? If they just wanna avoid relegation and be around 10th then the same feat they can achieve by going on a 3 or 4 match unbeaten streak and pick up some form eventually. But no, modern fans want to call for the head without digging in with the team in tough times.

Going by that logic, thinking about replacing Koeman with Unsworth is suicidal. I bet he will be gone within the 6 months of his tenure. All his reputation with U23 will be tarnished cos the man has 0 experience managing a 40k stadium, players on huge salaries and transfer fees and keeping up with the PL pressure. Point is, impulsive sackings are not always for the BETTER. If you want to sack a manager, give him reasonable amount of time and then when you do, be 100% sure about the man you want to bring in, back him 100% for a certain period of time (not 4 months or 6 months) to see if he can deliver. And while doing that, the board and DoF which generally hide behind the curtains in tough times need to take some responsibility.

I agree with a number of points that you raise (replacing Ranieri with Shakespeare was not ambition, Unsworth not being ready for the top job etc..) but the reason that I wan't Koeman gone is the results coupled with the performances compounded by his seemingly dreadful relationship with the players and fans. When you combine all of those factors I just don't see how we get out of this downward spiral.

After the Lyon, Arsenal and Chelsea games we have a very favourable run of fixtures up to our annual RS horror show. If we continue to pick up points at a rate of 1 per game during that run of fixtures then relegation becomes a very real proposition. Doing nothing now is likely to result in more of the same on the pitch, Koeman picks his favourites and surrounds them with a revolving door of random players playing out of position. He has done it all season long and shows no sign of stopping doing so, he plays with two DMs in every game and we move the ball so slowly that we are extremely easy to play against. It is no coincidence that the teams that have played us in the last few (very winnable) games have played the same way against us. Essentially if you lose posession against us you can drop back behind the ball and can expect play to eventually break down.

I'm not a big fan of the Watford sack model but we can't stay as we are.

 

[Efcjake]

Needs to fill out a little bit more, still think hes got the potential to be a CB, but currently hes not 1.

It's the position I play and for me his biggest weakness is in the air. He's terrible at marking players for a cross/corner coming in. His pace can get him out of situations when the ball is on the ground but he really needs to work on timing his jump and being closer to his man.

I'm more convinced that he will make a passable right back in the Tony Hibbert mold rather than someone like Stones or Keane.

I think he should be starting out of the 3 of them fit at least.

 

[COYBL25]

What additional payouts?

He gets a clog allowance and as a many free goes on Rachel Riley as he wants

 

[Osamabindiesel]

I agree with a number of points that you raise (replacing Ranieri with Shakespeare was not ambition, Unsworth not being ready for the top job etc..) but the reason that I wan't Koeman gone is the results coupled with the performances compounded by his seemingly dreadful relationship with the players and fans. When you combine all of those factors I just don't see how we get out of this downward spiral.

After the Lyon, Arsenal and Chelsea games we have a very favourable run of fixtures up to our annual RS horror show. If we continue to pick up points at a rate of 1 per game during that run of fixtures then relegation becomes a very real proposition. Doing nothing now is likely to result in more of the same on the pitch, Koeman picks his favourites and surrounds them with a revolving door of random players playing out of position. He has done it all season long and shows no sign of stopping doing so, he plays with two DMs in every game and we move the ball so slowly that we are extremely easy to play against. It is no coincidence that the teams that have played us in the last few (very winnable) games have played the same way against us. Essentially if you lose posession against us you can drop back behind the ball and can expect play to eventually break down.

I'm not a big fan of the Watford sack model but we can't stay as we are.

Exactly. What he is doing to the likes of Davies and Kenny is a disgrace. He also got into his tiff with Mirallas who is probably the only reliable option out wide atm. That's not taking into account Barkley who will probably leave because of Human Bender

 

[kenada_blue]

What additional payouts?

I dunno. Just sounded good. But I bet he'll have some.

Either way he'd walk away with £6mill+

 

[windymiller]

Exactly. What he is doing to the likes of Davies and Kenny is a disgrace. He also got into his tiff with Mirallas who is probably the only reliable option out wide atm. That's not taking into account Barkley who will probably leave because of Human Bender

Lookman can't even get in the squad now. Something is rotten in the state of Denmark!

 

[Ron Swanson]

If we can convince Tuschel to join via back channels, I'd kick Koeman out as soon as possible. I'd consider someone like Wagner as well.

 

[sageyefc]

Sack sack sack sack sack

 

[blueblue]

Hahahahahahahahaha.

Bet he was devoed to be playing Atletico Madrid on Saturday night instead of getting ready to sit on the bench at the Amex.

Do you believe he will be playing with Barca next season...I don't.

Barca could not sell him for twelve months after availing of their buy back option, I think he is just threading water there and will be sold next summer.

 

[blueblue]

Leicester sacked the manager who kept them up with the great escape that summer, they then sacks title winner the season afterwards, now they sack the guy who rescued them from relegation last year and was also part of the title success. It's called ambition without sentiment. Even Watford do it and look at the results, it may be chaotic but they've been promoted, stayed up, and now want to push onwards. Spurs did the same with Redknapp, Sherwood, AVB, until they got a manager who meets their ambition. Liverpool sacked their greatest ever player and the manager who almost delivered the title as soon as their trajectories levelled off. Klopp is now under arguably more pressure than Koeman is! Our board sit on their hands hiding behind the convenient mantra of 'Everton don't sack managers' because they have absolutely zero desire for us to improve as a football club in any aspect.

It will take some time for us to see if the way Leicester are acting is ambitious or stupid... I am favouring the latter. Getting rid of two managers so quickly is not the way to run a club and you must factor in they have lost probably their two most influential players in Kante and Drinkwater.

I am not trying to make any point about Everton here.. just have my doubts about Leicester.

 

[riddick]

Yes, we may sack a good manager but if the players and fans lost their confidence on him, how long and how he can rebuild their confidence?
Until we are in champion league and he bring back us to premier?? Just Like Martinez, I agree to sack him even I like his attacking style.
Once he lost the dressing room, he should be sacked as soon as possible and this is football.

Wait, who are you talking about?

 

[Rudolf Hucker]

Is there anyone who actually believes we'll get more from the Lyon, Arsenal, Chelsea games with Koeman in place, than him gone & Unsworth as caretaker???


I look at the players we have. Yes, we should have brought in a striker & LCB, but we still have way too much for Burnley, Bournemouth, Atalanta, Split..... the problem is the players appear to be completely bereft of belief & team spirit.

 

[faddy the blue]

Yes, we may sack a good manager but if the players and fans lost their confidence on him, how long and how he can rebuild their confidence?
Until we are in champion league and he bring back us to premier?? Just Like Martinez, I agree to sack him even I like his attacking style.
Once he lost the dressing room, he should be sacked as soon as possible and this is football.

You know its very easy to say the manager has lost the dressing room. Its a cliche these days. I saw Leicester yesterday and I saw them fight. I still don't see Koeman having lost the dressing room. There is a thing called "form" and "confidence". It does not return in a click of a button. It takes time and effort to return. Unless you're an club like Man City and Chelsea where top managers consider it their dream job, you cannot go about sacking managers as soon as your team's form dips.

 

[Lanolin]

Do you believe he will be playing with Barca next season...I don't.

Barca could not sell him for twelve months after availing of their buy back option, I think he is just threading water there and will be sold next summer.

I don't know is the honest answer. I suppose part of it depends how well he does for them this year. They didn't have to a)insert a buyback clause or b) utilise it though, so it's clear he's genuinely rated by the coaching staff there. Let's not forget that they shipped Sandro off as fast they could with no buyback or sell on clauses so it's clear which player they thought was better.

It just made me chuckle reading that his career had stalled though, when he's living his ultimate dream, playing for Barcelona and Spain. Whatever happens next year, I reckon he's pretty happy with his lot right about now.

 

[Rich B]

I agree with a number of points that you raise (replacing Ranieri with Shakespeare was not ambition, Unsworth not being ready for the top job etc..) but the reason that I wan't Koeman gone is the results coupled with the performances compounded by his seemingly dreadful relationship with the players and fans. When you combine all of those factors I just don't see how we get out of this downward spiral.

After the Lyon, Arsenal and Chelsea games we have a very favourable run of fixtures up to our annual RS horror show. If we continue to pick up points at a rate of 1 per game during that run of fixtures then relegation becomes a very real proposition. Doing nothing now is likely to result in more of the same on the pitch, Koeman picks his favourites and surrounds them with a revolving door of random players playing out of position. He has done it all season long and shows no sign of stopping doing so, he plays with two DMs in every game and we move the ball so slowly that we are extremely easy to play against. It is no coincidence that the teams that have played us in the last few (very winnable) games have played the same way against us. Essentially if you lose posession against us you can drop back behind the ball and can expect play to eventually break down.

I'm not a big fan of the Watford sack model but we can't stay as we are.

Exactly. What he is doing to the likes of Davies and Kenny is a disgrace. He also got into his tiff with Mirallas who is probably the only reliable option out wide atm. That's not taking into account Barkley who will probably leave because of Human Bender

Is there anyone who actually believes we'll get more from the Lyon, Arsenal, Chelsea games with Koeman in place, than him gone & Unsworth as caretaker???


I look at the players we have. Yes, we should have brought in a striker & LCB, but we still have way too much for Burnley, Bournemouth, Atalanta, Split..... the problem is the players appear to be completely bereft of belief & team spirit.

You know its very easy to say the manager has lost the dressing room. Its a cliche these days. I saw Leicester yesterday and I saw them fight. I still don't see Koeman having lost the dressing room. There is a thing called "form" and "confidence". It does not return in a click of a button. It takes time and effort to return. Unless you're an club like Man City and Chelsea where top managers consider it their dream job, you cannot go about sacking managers as soon as your team's form dips.

For me, all of these add up to :

Ideally we should be patient and stick with Ronko. Who wants to be a club side with trigger happy leaders who will ultimately destabilise the club?

But this is tempered with Ronko 's stubborn streak, his failure to build a positive relationship with his fans and players and his apparent blinkeredness that prevents him from seeing we need more youth, pace and width.

My own view is get shot now, I'm sorry to say. To change my view I'd need to see an urgent and drastic demonstration of tactical flexibility. Stop squeezing Rooney and Sig in, play with wingers, stop the negative 2 DCMs formation and play players in their best position.