Last three club managers

[Sapie88]

Dour, Ginger, park the bus and hope to nick one Moyes.

Clown, set - pieces don't count,the phenomenal bullshitting Martinez.

Large head, I'll just keep playing the same system that everyone else can see doesn't work, apart from me Koeman.

We have been truly blessed.

 

[LouReedwalkonthewildside]

We have been truly blessed.

We have had to endure some crap haven't we mate.

 

[SerenityNigh]

Not subtle though, are they?

Going back to your own analogy: would it be fair to compare NFL defensive and offensive coordinators?

It would certainly be difficult, but Moyes, Martinez, and Koeman all have held the same position with same responsibilities. We can absolutely look at OCs and DCs who become Head Coaches and compare them at the new job. That's not hard to do at all.

 

[davek]

It would certainly be difficult, but Moyes, Martinez, and Koeman all have held the same position with same responsibilities. We can absolutely look at OCs and DCs who become Head Coaches and compare them at the new job. That's not hard to do at all.

Good point, well made. I understand that reasoning. I can see how you arrive at it. However, there is a tradition in football (the real one not that rugby you lot play) which subdivides manager/head coaches into different styles with different strengths. There's always been a cleft in the game between pragmatists and idealists who have conflicting philosophy on how the game should be played. It's a real fault line running through the managerial ranks and always has been there. And I dont think that's the case in the NFL as head coaches are in their position because they can act holistically and filter information from both offence and defensive experts. They aren't really idealists as there's no call for it, they compute detail and make calls off info fed to them.

 

[Sapie88]

We have had to endure some crap haven't we mate.

1 FA Cup win in my lifetime.

 

[SerenityNigh]

Good point, well made. I understand that reasoning. I can see how you arrive at it. However, there is a tradition in football (the real one not that rugby you lot play) which subdivides manager/head coaches into different styles with different strengths. There's always been a cleft in the game between pragmatists and idealists who have conflicting philosophy on how the game should be played. It's a real fault line running through the managerial ranks and always has been there. And I dont think that's the case in the NFL as head coaches are in their position because they can act holistically and filter information from both offence and defensive experts. They aren't really idealists as there's no call for it, they compute detail and make calls off info fed to them.

There are definitely both idealists and pragmatists in handegg, but in some ways the nature of the game (draft favors poor teams with new players, schedule pits last year's toughest together, salary cap helps balance transfers) helps make the data easier to scrutinize. You can definitely argue whether the players were up to it or if the owner supported with enough transfer budget, but in the end it's a results business just like handegg, and subject to reasonable scrutiny. If Moyes was an orange then Martinez was a sour grape, one bunch short of a bottle of wine. It remains to be seen what Koeman will produce with his labors.

 

[LouReedwalkonthewildside]

1 FA Cup win in my lifetime.

 

[Goat]

1 FA Cup win in my lifetime.

2 Titles
2 FA Cups
1 European trophy

But whilst the 80s made our younger days a pleasure, the 90s and the 00s ruined a man.

 

[Sapie88]

Think I was conceived just after we last won the league.

Me dad still blames me.

 

[Moomin]

How many multis does @Moomin have?

I've yet to create a multi on here, I had a few in kipper.

It's too hard, it's a young man's game.

 

[Mikeonlythebestwilldo]

2 Titles
2 FA Cups
1 European trophy

But whilst the 80s made our younger days a pleasure, the 90s and the 00s ruined a man.

Ive only seen them winning the fa cup in 1996 mate I was only a toddler for the rest bud

 

[davek]

There are definitely both idealists and pragmatists in handegg, but in some ways the nature of the game (draft favors poor teams with new players, schedule pits last year's toughest together, salary cap helps balance transfers) helps make the data easier to scrutinize. You can definitely argue whether the players were up to it or if the owner supported with enough transfer budget, but in the end it's a results business just like handegg, and subject to reasonable scrutiny. If Moyes was an orange then Martinez was a sour grape, one bunch short of a bottle of wine. It remains to be seen what Koeman will produce with his labors.

I dont know, I fail to see the scope for different types of head coach in the NFL other than in terms of those who prefer to operate by using more of a running game as opposed to those who use it more sparingly. Is there any other stylistic difference I should be aware of here?

 

[SerenityNigh]

I've yet to create a multi on here, I had a few in kipper.

It's too hard, it's a young man's game.

 

[SerenityNigh]

I dont know, I fail to see the scope for different types of head coach in the NFL other than in terms of those who prefer to operate by using more of a running game as opposed to those who use it more sparingly. Is there any other stylistic difference I should be aware of here?

Huge difference in coaching styles, from the strict (Coughlin), to the "player's coaches" (Carroll), to those that are some mixture, giving wide latitude to talented players sufficiently buying into the system (Belicheck and Parcells) who take no crap from noncompliant players. You have offensive geniuses (Walsh) and defensive minds (Dungy), to those with extreme intensity getting the best out of the players inherited (Tomlin) or matching the squad to a specific system (I'm running out of specific examples). Then, you have rules changes, era changes, specific talent, and idealist principles which shape what works and how you proceed: big play (Madden?), ball control (Gibbs?), smashmouth defense (Knoll?) and those that won with guile and opportunity (Payton). Not to mention the dynasty builders like Jimmy Johnson, and the greats like Lomardi and Halas who I don't have the knowledge to discuss. Definitely a huge range of personalities and winning approaches. Given the nature of handegg, it might be more fair to compare NBA coaches, since there are fewer winners in the NBA, but no doubt there is a huge variety of personality in handegg. Maybe our muse @mezzrow can add to my limited insight (expects *nods*, agree with you Serenissmo.)

*Everyone listed here has at least 1 SB win

 

[Markydys]

Moyes turned our club around. Before he took over we spent years wondering if this was the season we'd finally go down. He turned us from relegation contenders to European contenders over a ten year period and gave us some exciting times too. Arteta, Cahill, The Yak, Saha amongst others were all down to him. Coleman, Baines and Jags were also his!!

Martinez came in and changed things for the worse in my opinion and now Koeman is feeling the effects. I think it's nonsensical that people are calling for his head after just a few months as if someone may come in to replace him and do a better job with the bunch of overpaid, over rated primal Donna's that Martinez left him with. Utter madness. If we give Koeman 3 years minimum, I'm convinced he'll deliver a season where we are on the brink of champions league football.