Roberto Martinez Discussion - Including Live Poll (Poll Reset 1st May)

Martinez in or out?

  • In

  • Out

  • Getting splinters eating cheese on toast on the fence

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sageyefc said:
He doesn't try to knock down the club like moyes did lowering expectations, plucky little Everton tag was engineered by ginger blurt. Bobbys always bleating on about the level this club should be at and things it should be doing, hes played a big part in changing our psyche he just can't match it
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Again, he has and he hasn't.

It is widely accepted that his reign has been two-tiered - the first season versus the second and third seasons.

In the first season, we all bought into his philosophy and his positivity and this was reinforced by results and performances.

Subsequent to that, it hasn't quite worked out and he has been guilty of lowering expectations more than Moyes ever did as far as I'm concerned following the gushing comments after our last two games.

Moyes was rightly criticised for his "knife to a gun-fight" comments but he was essentially correct. The United teams we faced during his tenure were mostly either reigning league champions or runners-up. Whether he ever should have said it is another matter. Ironically, his last ever game at OT as Everton manager resulted in us scoring four goals and effectively stopped them form winning the league!

I'm certainly not advocating a return for Moyes but he was a pragmatist rather than a fantasist.

Is our psyche better now than when Moyes left?
 
sageyefc said:
He doesn't try to knock down the club like moyes did lowering expectations, plucky little Everton tag was engineered by ginger blurt. Bobbys always bleating on about the level this club should be at and things it should be doing, hes played a big part in changing our psyche he just can't match it
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Very true.

And this is why I think history will be kind to Roberto Martinez.

He raised our expectations both on and off the field and if we didn't have his first season to compare them with, he wouldn't be getting so much stick about the two that followed.

The axe is inevitable....but I will remember him more fondly than I remember Mr. Moyes.
 
D410 said:
I was worried about West Ham this week now it looks like Man Utd who have beaten us home and away twice might take us to the cleaners on a big pitch and now last night.

What incentive is there for the fringe players to put in a shift tomorrow? None. We are going to get thumped Sat then I am going to watch MLB for the rest of the month.
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Things are grim, but watching baseball is going too far.
 

Khalekan said:
Very true.

And this is why I think history will be kind to Roberto Martinez.

He raised our expectations both on and off the field and if we didn't have his first season to compare them with, he wouldn't be getting so much stick about the two that followed.

The axe is inevitable....but I will remember him more fondly than I remember Mr. Moyes.
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Thing about it, he talks about raising expectations then has lowered some fans expectations so much that it is seen acceptable to be in the position we are in. I have actually read on here "we are where we deserve to be".

Absolutely Baffled. Martinez talks a good game, but he can't back it up and he doesnt have the man management ability to get his players to raise their level by an extra 30% like other managers do. Good managers make average players look great, Poor managers make good players look rubbish.

Easy to point to what we currently have.
 
sageyefc said:
He doesn't try to knock down the club like moyes did lowering expectations, plucky little Everton tag was engineered by ginger blurt. Bobbys always bleating on about the level this club should be at and things it should be doing, hes played a big part in changing our psyche he just can't match it
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I'm not sure I agree.

Moyes played down expectations deliberately, as any intelligent manager will do. Under promise and over deliver is what most managers aim for in any business. Tell people that 8th is good and they'll think 7th is great, in the same way as you tell people something will be delivered in 5 days and they'll be made up when they get after 2.

Martinez is obviously very positive, and he doesn't under promise. He does, however, qualify everything to ensure that we don't really expect anything from him. He talks about winning trophies but then qualifies it by saying getting to the semis is 'close'. He talks about us becoming a major force, but qualifies it by never actually saying when. He says he wants to go to Old Trafford or The Emirates with no fear, and then claims that we did exactly that, and the result is irrelevant.

Moyes would undoubtedly would have said this season hadn't been good enough. He'd have given it the big spiel about how we couldn't expect to actually win anything, but he would have admitted 12th wasn't good. Roberto just says we're not underperforming because it's all part of the journey or whatever. It's exactly the same thing, just done in a different way.
 
Khalekan said:
Very true.

And this is why I think history will be kind to Roberto Martinez.

He raised our expectations both on and off the field and if we didn't have his first season to compare them with, he wouldn't be getting so much stick about the two that followed.

The axe is inevitable....but I will remember him more fondly than I remember Mr. Moyes.
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He gave us a lot of belief back in his first season, i thought the sky was the limit after that year. Hes not been able to sustain that but the fans demand so much more now, along with the new owner we're starting to think big again
 
ncblue said:
100% agree. I applaud those that can see Martinez leading us to victory, but I can't. I'll still be cheering us on as always but seeing the way the team is deteriorating week on week, I think next week will be horrendous.. starting on Wednesday.
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Hopefully I'm wrong but I can see the horrendous stuff starting tomorrow!
 

Lanolin said:
I'm not sure I agree.

Moyes played down expectations deliberately, as any intelligent manager will do. Under promise and over deliver is what most managers aim for in any business. Tell people that 8th is good and they'll think 7th is great, in the same way as you tell people something will be delivered in 5 days and they'll be made up when they get after 2.

Martinez is obviously very positive, and he doesn't under promise. He does, however, qualify everything to ensure that we don't really expect anything from him. He talks about winning trophies but then qualifies it by saying getting to the semis is 'close'. He talks about us becoming a major force, but qualifies it by never actually saying when. He says he wants to go to Old Trafford or The Emirates with no fear, and then claims that we did exactly that, and the result is irrelevant.

Moyes would undoubtedly would have said this season hadn't been good enough. He'd have given it the big spiel about how we couldn't expect to actually win anything, but he would have admitted 12th wasn't good. Roberto just says we're not underperforming because it's all part of the journey or whatever. It's exactly the same thing, just done in a different way.
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Moyes dourness took over us, the entire perception from the media, other fans and our own fans of 'plucky little Everton' was down to him to serve his own ego. This club should under no circumstances think like that or be thought as like that
 
sageyefc said:
Yes.
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Fair enough. I don't.

As things stand, we are (almost to a man/woman), fearing the next eight days or so and wondering where our next goal is coming from, nevermind our next victory.

I don't recall having such fear towards the end of the 2012-2013 season.

Of course, this is just my view.
 
Cork Evertonian said:
Roberto on the whole is a decent bloke.He got rid of the David Moyes were plucky little Everton mentality.He is a man who is of the mentality that Everton FC bow down to no one.The first season under him was brilliant.He deserves credit for that.But we have seen over the course of the last 2 seasons just isn't good enough.If or should i say when we win the FA cup i still don't see Roberto Martinez as being capable of turning Everton into regular champions league/title contenders.There are qualities to the man that i like.He helped assembled a talented Everton squad but he has failed dismally to make the most out of what he has assembled.With an FA cup win he will be remembered kindly and it would be a nice way for him to bow out.He has to go though it's just that simple.
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Sorry mate but all this decent bloke stuff is pure BS, he is an out and out liar and con man, he has absolutely neglected so much at Everton and is possibly the most deluded and ignorant person I have ever seen.
 

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