Roberto Martinez discussion

Polish_Blue_Army · February 15, 2016

Viva roberto

McBain · February 15, 2016

Sentinel · February 15, 2016

GwladysBlue, you have to look at in in context. We have 35 points and as such, we're only 25 points from 60, therefore it's a successful season. If you just got promoted to the the premier league, like...

GwladysBlue · February 15, 2016

By god I'm blue said:
Can't believe there is an actual debate comparing Martinez and his magical one season wonder to the 2 managers actually chasing the title this season.

Who actually gives a toss?

Let me re-iterate. Martinez at this moment in time looks very much like a one season wonder.

Since that one season, he has taken the club backwards at an alarming rate and if not addressed soon will probably put us back as a regular bottom half of the table club.

We played great football that season granted, with purpose and scored lots of goals whilst not conceding too many.

The side was basically the foundations of the apparently awful Moyes side with the welcome additions of some decent players recruited by Martinez.

Come May, that will be two seasons past. Hark on all you want about that glorious season, but we won nothing and didn't qualify for the CL.

If that is all you can cling into as a reason to keep him now, when we are struggling for any form of consistency for nearly two full seasons since, then you are boring, stuck in the past and draining the life out of this forum with your kopite like behaviour of reminiscing, though in fact you are reminiscing about nothing particular as nothing extraordinary was achieved.

He blew Champions League in the closing games of that season too.

Bizarre decision to drop McCarthy for Palace at home.

BlueToff · February 15, 2016

Saint Domingo said:
One seems to be able to implement their principles quickly whilst the other just talks about doing them. Pochettino's squad revolution has been fantastic and he has altered their culture completely. We are still not showing any signs of improving our mentality.

I'd say we altered it pretty quickly in his first season - in fact more than Poch did.

This second season he's really kicked them on and they're playing well.

We faltered last year and then this season have shown some real signs of improvement, but ultimately some of the same problems persist.

I'm still willing to give RM time and, despite what the media will say/do to try and sell our players this summer, I think we'll keep hold of all of our stars, bar maybe Stones.

And if Stones does go, then it'll be on our terms and we'll get tons of money.

thebluenosebolt · February 15, 2016

My new years resolution starting now..No posting when we loose, It just gets messy.
I like Roberto but he seems to have problems when we play teams who park the bus. He subs completely suck arse, Kone is NEVER the answer....Don't care the question.
Kevin Miralles ?? where are you Kev ?? I'm guessing Kevin has given El Boberto some home truths Hence he just doesn't get picked. It's a scandal that we have a player who (Can) change a game, Sat on the bench whilst Osman and Kone get on, Both not fit anymore...It's a crying shame and Bob HAS to swallow is pride / ego or this season is dead. (probably is anyway now).
KONE IS NEVER THE ANSWER !!!!!

bluestevon · February 15, 2016

Could argue that we have had three pressure games under Martinez and every time the team/him have folded big time

After Arsenal in that 'magical dream' season we lost 3 of 5 when we'd put it in our own hands to get fourth and ended up limping in a mile away from Arsenal - key moment is in an absolutely vital game against Palace he decides to rest the heartbeat of the team in McCarthy and we go on to give a totally insipid performance lacking bite, that started the spiral down

Kiev away in the EL - going their with a lead - he decides to not risk playing Stones and instead goes with Alcaraz - cue a nightmare game from him - a meltdown of the team and a truly embarrassing exit

The next time was a cup semi with a lead going to a place we'd just gotten a draw in a few days earlier and we folded again when the pressure was on. Winning the tie with 30 mins left the manager takes off any threat we have of hitting them on the counter and we basically get hammered from those subs onwards with no way of relieving the pressure

Three massive games he has had and all three times when the pressure was turned on him he made an absolute mess of it, Second rate manager who can get some fantastic results but has no consistency and when the pressure turned on him ultimately fails, lucked out winning a cup final against a city side that went in not arsed due to knowing the manager was leaving a few days later

WarringtonBlue · February 15, 2016

bluestevon said:
Could argue that we have had three pressure games under Martinez and every time the team/him have folded big time

After Arsenal in that 'magical dream' season we lost 3 of 5 when we'd put it in our own hands to get fourth and ended up limping in a mile away from Arsenal - key moment is in an absolutely vital game against Palace he decides to rest the heartbeat of the team in McCarthy and we go on to give a totally insipid performance lacking bite, that started the spiral down

Kiev away in the EL - going their with a lead - he decides to not risk playing Stones and instead goes with Alcaraz - cue a nightmare game from him - a meltdown of the team and a truly embarrassing exit

The next time was a cup semi with a lead going to a place we'd just gotten a draw in a few days earlier and we folded again when the pressure was on. Winning the tie with 30 mins left the manager takes off any threat we have of hitting them on the counter and we basically get hammered from those subs onwards with no way of relieving the pressure

Three massive games he has had and all three times when the pressure was turned on him he made an absolute mess of it, Second rate manager who can get some fantastic results but has no consistency and when the pressure turned on him ultimately fails, lucked out winning a cup final against a city side that went in not arsed due to knowing the manager was leaving a few days later

McCarthy was apparently touch and go with an injury for the palace game iirc

BlueToff · February 15, 2016

bluestevon said:
Could argue that we have had three pressure games under Martinez and every time the team/him have folded big time

After Arsenal in that 'magical dream' season we lost 3 of 5 when we'd put it in our own hands to get fourth and ended up limping in a mile away from Arsenal - key moment is in an absolutely vital game against Palace he decides to rest the heartbeat of the team in McCarthy and we go on to give a totally insipid performance lacking bite, that started the spiral down

Kiev away in the EL - going their with a lead - he decides to not risk playing Stones and instead goes with Alcaraz - cue a nightmare game from him - a meltdown of the team and a truly embarrassing exit

The next time was a cup semi with a lead going to a place we'd just gotten a draw in a few days earlier and we folded again when the pressure was on. Winning the tie with 30 mins left the manager takes off any threat we have of hitting them on the counter and we basically get hammered from those subs onwards with no way of relieving the pressure

Three massive games he has had and all three times when the pressure was turned on him he made an absolute mess of it, Second rate manager who can get some fantastic results but has no consistency and when the pressure turned on him ultimately fails, lucked out winning a cup final against a city side that went in not arsed due to knowing the manager was leaving a few days later

We did to City what WBA did to us on Saturday - frustrated them and got lucky with Aguero hitting the post and some shots going just wide - until Atkinson's decision changed the game.

City had created far less chances than we did against West Brom as well. If we'd have got a goal the other day (with or without help from the ref) the floodgates would have opened.

I agree with the principle but not when the game turns on an official's decision, and then you didn't even mention it?

Deulofeu was knackered, and was costing us possession. Lennon should have been the sub and RM's mistake was bringing on Kone to try and get Rom into the game.

But again, it wasn't Kone that cost us that game, it was the fact the referee didn't do his job - which he then managed to do just fine yesterday in the Arsenal game in an identical situation - and from that we collapsed and City's £200mil attacking line punished us.

BlueToff · February 15, 2016

WarringtonBlue said:
McCarthy was apparently touch and go with an injury for the palace game iirc

Yeh he was. Was a mistake to rest him like but I genuinely thought RM (like many of us at the time) thought we would have enough to beat Palace without him.

bluewally · February 15, 2016

davek said:
There's no defence of Moyes' football. He had 10 years here and built three teams in that time, not one of them played a brand of football that was consistently stylish in the way that this current Everton team does. This present team, warts an' all, pisses all over their Moyes predecessors in terms of ability and flair.

On your point about best of the rest and lying in wait ready to be that team when it mattered: we almost did that in RMs first season when Arsenal were struggling to get their act together in the Easter period. But it just wasn't enough. Also, to be best of the rest these days is very much more difficult than when Moyes was here. The extra cash all clubs get in the PL has made it a more competitive environment for European places. It's a different era now.

Flair is great when you're winning. Maybe booby needs to focus a little less on flair and sort his team out. whats that? He's working on it. Oh great any idea how many years that will take?

And don't forget we get the extra cash the same as any other team so stop using that to again lower our expectations for Everton under Bobbys reign

Cork Evertonian · February 15, 2016

After the mist has settled i have come to a few conclusions. Two consecutive seasons of 10/11th place/failing to mount a credible challenge for a champions league place just isn't good enough. Only 4 home league wins over a Chelsea team that stopped playing for Mourhino,the pitiful shambles that were Villa and Spurs and the hapless geordies just isn't good enough for me. Only an FA cup win and a credible attempt at finishing 5th or 6th will for me salvage the managers reputation. Now Roberto Martinez still has his loyal supporters and i respect them. They are entitled to air their support of the manager as well. Just like how supporters like myself are entitled to express our opinions without being called not true Evertonians/Keyboard Assasins. We all want what's best for Everton it's just that we have different opinions on what the best course of action for Everton is going forward. To be honest Martinez lost me when he sold Steven Naismith just to give his buddy Aroune Kone an easier passage to get into the team. If there is no substantial improvement at the end of the season then the board if they have any sense of ambition should try and get a Frank De Boer/Andre Villa Boas type manager in. But as i said before the board and a large section of our support are just happy enough with staying afloat in the premiership.

Cork Evertonian · February 15, 2016

I meant to say Sunderland not Spurs there but whatever you try and dice it.4 home wins over teams in the bottom half of the table so far this season speaks for itself really.

davek · February 15, 2016

MoutsGoat said:
How is something already achieved impossible to achieve again?

Even after buying 20 players and spending 100m?

The nearest we ever got to it in the PL was 65 points (the last time we did and surpassed it, in fact, was when we last won the title). It's that difficult to get through the 70 point barrier. I didn't say it was impossible to achieve, I said it was going to be so until we receive proper funding. Even three seasons back when we did it, the finances of the PL were a different world to the one they are now. Now even pony clubs like Leciester are keeping pace for three quarters of the season in a title race! The financial changes have equalised matters to a degree (a good thing all told) but it means that more teams can now take more points off us, one of the traditional 'best of the rest' teams outside the top four.

It's a mountain to climb to get up near that total. Not impossible, as Leicester will probably show by May with their total, but probably only one out of the much larger pack like them stand a chance each year to hit a glut of extended good form and make a charge for a 70 point season.

davek · February 15, 2016

riddick said:
So why do you use it as the benchmark for defending Martinez? Why not say 'he exceeded expectations but I think we should be 60 points with him'? Is it because 60pts are not exactly a step up in the right direction?

I dont present it as a benchmark, I emphasise it as an amazing feat that this manager and his players achieved to anyone who doubts his ability to get a high PL position to the one we have now.

60 points has been achieved by an Everton team 6 times in the last 20 odd years. If you dont see it as moving in the right direction then you need to consult a history book. It was and is a perfectly good target to set any Everton team at the start of the season. This season it looks like we dont get it again...just like 15 or 16 other times in the past 20 odd years.