Roberto Martinez discussion

[BlueToff]

Ha ha comparisons between Martinez and Pochettino are laughable. In two seasons he has completely reshaped their squad and got them challenging for the title. We are still waiting for this never ending squad building to finish under Martinez and in 3 seasons he's got us in midtable.

We haven't finished the 3rd season yet. 12 games to go. If we're still in the same position come the summer than you can have your moment.

Poch is a very good manager. I'm just pointing out that he also shares the same principles as Martinez - which is correct.

 

[riddick]

72 points in many seasons is a CL spot total. In other words, Martinez's first season here was a better effort than a lot of teams that have got that 4th spot.

Pochettino will get a CL spot this season and good luck to them. They've played very well. But the point put to me was their manager's achievements thus far had eclipsed Martinez's first season here at Everton. They haven't. That's how good it was.

Struggle all you like over this: you and no one else can ever downgrade that 72 point tally. It was unbelievable with the resources he had and in a first season. Let's see if Ranieri gets that many in his first season at Leicester. I think it'll be harder to get than you think.

So...lemme get this straight..

Ranieri would rather have 72 points than win the league. Or Pochettino being second within a shout of winning the league. Because that's a far better accomplishment that nobody should take away from Martinez. That he finished fifth. With 72pts.

Oh sorry, forgot that it's also not the goal anymore.. He's being held ransom by the ridiculous expectations of his first season by the people who claim his first season is what he CAN do...Just he isn't..

 

[Saint Domingo]

We haven't finished the 3rd season yet. 12 games to go. If we're still in the same position come the summer than you can have your moment.

Poch is a very good manager. I'm just pointing out that he also shares the same principles as Martinez - which is correct.

One seems to be able to implement their principles quickly whilst the other just talks about doing them. Pochettino's squad revolution has been fantastic and he has altered their culture completely. We are still not showing any signs of improving our mentality.

 

[balggy]

Moyes was a dullard manager, that was his crime for me. He had zero idea how to play attacking attractive football. I've said loads of times here that his 7th place finishes meant no more than finishing 5th or 12th. Same goes for Martinez if he gets 7th place. It's nothing. Winning cups and playing good football are our targets. Forget about CL qualification. We'd need mid 70 points for that and it isn't happening without massive cash injection.

Dave, you are so wrong it is off the Richter scale.

You seem to think that you set the clubs targets? Whilst you are a well established poster on the forum, I'm not sure you get to say what the goals are each year.

For the last 10 years it has seemed that the clubs target has been to finish in the Top 6/7. On occasions there have been noises that we might be able to challenge for a top four spot. Whilst there isn't necessary an expectation for us to achieve it, our goal is to qualify for the champions league.

At Martinez's first press conference Bill spoke about trying to get in the champions league. Not winning the league cup.

On occasions, one of the established sky four falter. If you are the "best of the rest", as Moyes often had us, it puts you in a good position to challenge for the top 4 if someone drops out.

That is effectively what has happened this year. But instead of one place becoming available, two have. If we're still "best of the rest", we might be in a position to take advantage of this great opportunity. However, as we are 11th and will be entering March with 35 points, we ain't.

Also, someone needs to call you out on your comments concerning Moyes style of football. I don't want him back, because you should always move forward. But the way you go on, you would think we were managed by Pulis or Allerdyce. We played some decent football under Moyes. Not Arsenal/ Barcelona, but decent. Whilst we would sometimes launch it towards Fellaini (it's not a crime to mix it up), we played some decent stuff, especially on the left with Baines and Pienaar overlapping. Osman's goal against Larissa in the Europa league was sex.

You make some good points and your obviously intelligent. But there is no need to re-write history.

 

[Toast]

Dave, you are so wrong it is off the Richter scale.

You seem to think that you set the clubs targets? Whilst you are a well established poster on the forum, I'm not sure you get to say what the goals are each year.

For the last 10 years it has seemed that the clubs target has been to finish in the Top 6/7. On occasions there have been noises that we might be able to challenge for a top four spot. Whilst there isn't necessary an expectation for us to achieve it, our goal is to qualify for the champions league.

At Martinez's first press conference Bill spoke about trying to get in the champions league. Not winning the league cup.

On occasions, one of the established sky four falter. If you are the "best of the rest", as Moyes often had us, it puts you in a good position to challenge for the top 4 if someone drops out.

That is effectively what has happened this year. But instead of one place becoming available, two have. If we're still "best of the rest", we might be in a position to take advantage of this great opportunity. However, as we are 11th and will be entering March with 35 points, we ain't.

Also, someone needs to call you out on your comments concerning Moyes style of football. I don't want him back, because you should always move forward. But the way you go on, you would think we were managed by Pulis or Allerdyce. We played some decent football under Moyes. Not Arsenal/ Barcelona, but decent. Whilst we would sometimes launch it towards Fellaini (it's not a crime to mix it up), we played some decent stuff, especially on the left with Baines and Pienaar overlapping. Osman's goal against Larissa in the Europa league was sex.

You make some good points and your obviously intelligent. But there is no need to re-write history.

Can't think of a better post today.

No name calling, and very balanced..

Good stuff.

 

[willo30]

One thing that does seem to stand out is that we don't seem to have beaten any "In Form" teams this season.

Villa, Sunderland and Newcastle x2 bottom 3. Chelsea were poor for the 1st half of the season. Southampton only won one of their first six games. Stoke without a win or a goal in 4. WBA were probably the closest with 2 wins from 6 when we played them.

So this so called best squad of players for years is either just an illusion or is being badly mis-managed.

35 shots against a team who somehow nicked a lead and then parked the bus for 75 minutes wasn't unexpected to me. I don't see how anyone can see 35 attempts with no goals as anything but an absolute failure.

 

[Goat]

Pffft!

How have we spent more actual money than Spurs?

You have a time frame of about two seasons when it's a team built up over a half a decade.

Guess what Dave, Everton were around before El Coco came into town, so when I say We, I mean Everton.

 

[kithnou]

I posted this yesterday as we were all having some fun with the US election.
It is on topic, so play with me here.

So many of us in GOT and Evertonians worldwide are waiting for Roberto Martinez to have that "Howard Kendall moment" and the team explodes.

Everyone visualise my admired @deipnosophist playing the role of the wise Senator Bentson, and Roberto Martinez the role of Dan Quayle justifying himself.

Let's have some fun people...wait for the last minute or so




"Roberto. You are no Howard Kendall"

 

[davek]

So...lemme get this straight..

Ranieri would rather have 72 points than win the league. Or Pochettino being second within a shout of winning the league. Because that's a far better accomplishment that nobody should take away from Martinez. That he finished fifth. With 72pts.

Oh sorry, forgot that it's also not the goal anymore.. He's being held ransom by the ridiculous expectations of his first season by the people who claim his first season is what he CAN do...Just he isn't..

The only possible way of comparing performance of teams/managers in one season with others in other seasons is via a points comparison. On that basis, at this moment in time, Martinez's first season total of 72 points out performs what either of those two managers have ever done. Is that so hard to understand? I mean, our managers critics are pointing to his failure to replicate anything like his first season in charge. So the season by season points total holds for him, but not between him and other managers?

 

[edge]

Dave, you are so wrong it is off the Richter scale.

You seem to think that you set the clubs targets? Whilst you are a well established poster on the forum, I'm not sure you get to say what the goals are each year.

For the last 10 years it has seemed that the clubs target has been to finish in the Top 6/7. On occasions there have been noises that we might be able to challenge for a top four spot. Whilst there isn't necessary an expectation for us to achieve it, our goal is to qualify for the champions league.

At Martinez's first press conference Bill spoke about trying to get in the champions league. Not winning the league cup.

On occasions, one of the established sky four falter. If you are the "best of the rest", as Moyes often had us, it puts you in a good position to challenge for the top 4 if someone drops out.

That is effectively what has happened this year. But instead of one place becoming available, two have. If we're still "best of the rest", we might be in a position to take advantage of this great opportunity. However, as we are 11th and will be entering March with 35 points, we ain't.

Also, someone needs to call you out on your comments concerning Moyes style of football. I don't want him back, because you should always move forward. But the way you go on, you would think we were managed by Pulis or Allerdyce. We played some decent football under Moyes. Not Arsenal/ Barcelona, but decent. Whilst we would sometimes launch it towards Fellaini (it's not a crime to mix it up), we played some decent stuff, especially on the left with Baines and Pienaar overlapping. Osman's goal against Larissa in the Europa league was sex.

You make some good points and your obviously intelligent. But there is no need to re-write history.

Not a Moyes fan at all, thought he took the job for granted after a while, but the team that got us into Europe under him would beat the current lot 9 out of ten times they could close a game down, and win ugly.
This lot have some better players ,but lack any leadership or game knowledge ,how to shape or alter a game, just go at it one way , even if its plain as day isn't working.
Plus importantly the crowd got behind them, they don't buy into the brand of football we play at the moment that's why the grounds so flat.
If its so exciting how come the crowd arnt excited?

 

[Blues Harp]

72 points in many seasons is a CL spot total. In other words, Martinez's first season here was a better effort than a lot of teams that have got that 4th spot.

Pochettino will get a CL spot this season and good luck to them. They've played very well. But the point put to me was their manager's achievements thus far had eclipsed Martinez's first season here at Everton. They haven't. That's how good it was.

Struggle all you like over this: you and no one else can ever downgrade that 72 point tally. It was unbelievable with the resources he had and in a first season. Let's see if Ranieri gets that many in his first season at Leicester. I think it'll be harder to get than you think.

60 points Billy ? Did you sit there yesterday and fume ??? I feckin' did

 

[davek]

Dave, you are so wrong it is off the Richter scale.

You seem to think that you set the clubs targets? Whilst you are a well established poster on the forum, I'm not sure you get to say what the goals are each year.

For the last 10 years it has seemed that the clubs target has been to finish in the Top 6/7. On occasions there have been noises that we might be able to challenge for a top four spot. Whilst there isn't necessary an expectation for us to achieve it, our goal is to qualify for the champions league.

At Martinez's first press conference Bill spoke about trying to get in the champions league. Not winning the league cup.

On occasions, one of the established sky four falter. If you are the "best of the rest", as Moyes often had us, it puts you in a good position to challenge for the top 4 if someone drops out.

That is effectively what has happened this year. But instead of one place becoming available, two have. If we're still "best of the rest", we might be in a position to take advantage of this great opportunity. However, as we are 11th and will be entering March with 35 points, we ain't.

Also, someone needs to call you out on your comments concerning Moyes style of football. I don't want him back, because you should always move forward. But the way you go on, you would think we were managed by Pulis or Allerdyce. We played some decent football under Moyes. Not Arsenal/ Barcelona, but decent. Whilst we would sometimes launch it towards Fellaini (it's not a crime to mix it up), we played some decent stuff, especially on the left with Baines and Pienaar overlapping. Osman's goal against Larissa in the Europa league was sex.

You make some good points and your obviously intelligent. But there is no need to re-write history.

There's no defence of Moyes' football. He had 10 years here and built three teams in that time, not one of them played a brand of football that was consistently stylish in the way that this current Everton team does. This present team, warts an' all, pisses all over their Moyes predecessors in terms of ability and flair.

On your point about best of the rest and lying in wait ready to be that team when it mattered: we almost did that in RMs first season when Arsenal were struggling to get their act together in the Easter period. But it just wasn't enough. Also, to be best of the rest these days is very much more difficult than when Moyes was here. The extra cash all clubs get in the PL has made it a more competitive environment for European places. It's a different era now.

 

[willo30]

The only possible way of comparing performance of teams/managers in one season with others in other seasons is via a points comparison. On that basis, at this moment in time, Martinez's first season total of 72 points out performs what either of those two managers have ever done. Is that so hard to understand? I mean, our managers critics are pointing to his failure to replicate anything like his first season in charge. So the season by season points total holds for him, but not between him and other managers?

Incorrect I'm afraid Dave. At this moment in time Pochettino in his second season has beaten Martinez's second season points total. Also in his second season he is also going to beat our 3rd seasons points total. At this moment in time they are the facts. This 72pts lark bought him last season in my book. It's well forgotten now.

 

[riddick]

The only possible way of comparing performance of teams/managers in one season with others in other seasons is via a points comparison. On that basis, at this moment in time, Martinez's first season total of 72 points out performs what either of those two managers have ever done. Is that so hard to understand? I mean, our managers critics are pointing to his failure to replicate anything like his first season in charge. So the season by season points total holds for him, but not between him and other managers?

But you aren't saying that. You are saying that you expect 60 points. 12 points less than the vaunted year he didn't accomplish anything than 5th. And he's not going to come close to that. I'm guessing you're wild card is 'but I also said a good cup run'. To which we lost in the semi's (huzzah..?) and didn't win. How is that "better" than what Moyes has done? It's lowering expectations, plain and simple.

 

[Blues Harp]

Hi Billy Bullens .. You still not going the game ? Ha ha