Roberto Martinez discussion

[hullefc]

That's drivel mate sorry.

So it's the players who need to improve their own defending and sort it themselves? Why have a coaching team and a manager then?

Ossie's revelation in his book that we didn't even practise set piece defending under Martinez, tells you all you need to know about the level of drilling the back line is getting.

Great defences are built on solid defensive drilling. Hour after hour on the training ground, practising how to counteract all sorts of scenarios as a defensive unit, not as individuals ffs.

Lukaku has used his own initiative to improve aspects of his game that need working on. Can we say the same for defenders? Baines and Mori have said recently that they have been defending set pieces. So they are practising. Whether it is hour after hour, I don't know as you don't. As a player I would be demanding that we practise hour after hour, even if the manager doesn't initiate it.

 

[BigDuncis Blue]

i would give him this month to sort himself out tactics/ keeper wise, and see if he can bring anybody in, because we not far off being half decent, if he continues in the same way and is stubborn and sits on his hands and carries on the same way , i will want him gone at the end of the season.

This is a massive month for us, Man C 3 times , Tott H, Chelsea, Swansea and Dag in the FA Cup....if ever RM wanted a chance to show us what he can do, this is it

 

[hullefc]

Watch the games mate

And I see a lot of individual errors. Something that may be rectified if their is a desire on the part of some players to improve.

 

[orly]

Haha. I never knew Moyes was so good. Bad me. Arsenal 6-2 defeat at home. Cracker that was. Oh and let's not forget the 4-0 defeat by Bolton. Yes yard dog Nolan being made to look like a proper footballer. Let's never forget the crap LFC team that defeated us at Wembley after we took the lead and did what? Hold on to what we had and defend. That worked a treat didn't it. The organisation that day at a free kick was so good they never scored. Oh wait they did. Oh and Distin's panicked at the sight of Suarez and 'lost it' and tried a terrible back pass - great craft on the ball instilled in a player by Moyes. I think I'm warming to this great defensive coach Moyes.

Jesus wept. I'm going to have to look at those stats again I must have missed the bag full of trophies Moyes won. Oh and the 5-0 away defeat at Benfica and the 5-1 defeat at Bucharest after taking the lead. He didn't have a clue what to do when they scored. Yes we also had some good results in Europe.

You may not have read this Romelu Lukaku trained up to three hours a day during ...

Lukaku alongside the coaching staff worked on his game during the summer. Dock Martinez some wages. Lukakau should be doing that should he? He should only do it with permission from the manager. Beckham practised on his own as did Georgie Best. They had the desire to improve. But no, not for you, such initiative. To quote, "If the players are going to coach themselves better, what on earth are we employing him for", Bad Georgie for wanting to use your own initiative and get better. And become one of the greatest footballers that graced the bogs of pitches in the 60s and 70s. By the way Delofeu's improvement - nothing to do with his own desire to get better. And nothing to do with Martinez I suppose.

Get players like that who don't want to work on their game on their own initiative and you get players that can't think for themselves and solve problems on the pitch. In fact that would my criticism of our players, not reading the game and changing. But we haven't got a Howie kendall or a Peter Reid/Ratcliffe.

I will repeat for you. Moyes held this club back and didn't achieve as much as he should have with the squad and the resources at his disposal. A sign of which was the pathetic rolling over/never turning up at Arsenal/Manu/LFC and Chelsea. Instil fears/negativity into players heads and they will react like rabbits in the headlights. Oh and for every City victory there is a defeat. The Balotelli one when 10 behind the ball and hope for the best. Ok until 20 minutes to go and then bang 2-0 defeat. Really loved those away days.

Barkley is a prime example of a player that has improved so much because of Martinez and his beliefs.

I for one, like the thousands of Evertonians that have either returned to the fold or are new supporters - something you pooh pooh - can't wait for the next game. Anticipation of watching an Everton team managed by a manger that is trying to return us to some semblance of the school of science way of playing football.

Incredible, I've actually just seen George Best as an example of a top trainer. Unbelievable lol

I'm going to have to look at those stats again I must have missed the bag full of trophies Moyes won. Oh and the 5-0 away defeat at Benfica and the 5-1 defeat at Bucharest after taking the lead. He didn't have a clue what to do when they scored. Yes we also had some good results in Europe.

Ah right, we're scrubbing over the thrashing in Kiev as well. Let's just whitewash the lot.

In fact that would my criticism of our players, not reading the game and changing. But we haven't got a Howie kendall or a Peter Reid/Ratcliffe.

Hmm.. and what also marked out that side.... attacking flair built on superb foundations. Our foundations are currently built on paper-mache... your messiah decided to spend £9.5m on Funes Mori, look where that has got us.

Moyes held this club back and didn't achieve as much as he should have with the squad and the resources at his disposal.

You mean like a £450k centre-forward the season we finished fourth having had to sell the most gifted teenager in English football on transfer deadline day? Or his net spend of something like £10m across his time at the Club? Again, we've just spaffed nearly that up the wall on Funes Mori. We are currently being saved from true embarrassment by a £28m centre forward.

Oh and for every City victory there is a defeat.

For every win at Old Trafford (one) we've got home defeats vs United (0-3) this season alone. Statistically even worse than the United side annihilated by the ginger biff! Let's not look at his record vs Liverpool or City. Or Palace at home... gulp.

Oh and Distin's panicked at the sight of Suarez and 'lost it' and tried a terrible back pass - great craft on the ball instilled in a player by Moyes.

Literally yesterday - less than 24 hours ago - Naismith did a backpass of similar ineptitude.

Games against teams in the top half this season - 10 games, 0 wins, 5 draws, 5 defeats. Seven of them at home. 'Have a go hero' Martinez really must be impressing those returning chaps like yourself. Is the booing a sort of post-modern ironic appreciation of some kind?

You're defeating yourself with your own examples here.

 

[Whistlin' Dixie]

Lukaku has used his own initiative to improve aspects of his game that need working on.

That's right. He had to use his initiative to publicly ask RM if he could play more central, because bobby once played him on the right against arsenal and he tore vela (?) a new one as big as the grand canyon - which gave RM the bright idea of leaving him out on the right in plenty of matches thereafter.

Now he's back in the centre & slotting them regularly....

 

[daz4matty]

And I see a lot of individual errors. Something that may be rectified if their is a desire on the part of some players to improve.

The system and tactics are the reason we are so open.
We make a lot of errors but what is behind that its unnatural.
The big question is who keeps giving flappy a game because that is insanity

 

[edge]

This.

RM is a half-match manager. One thing you could say about moyles @davek , is that he more often than not got us going after Christmas, so in essence was a half-season manager.

Will RM?

If RM doesn't improve results between now & the end of the season then you'll have no defence left for him whatsoever. Not that there's much for you to defend the now, like.

Oh, and a cup final isn't anywhere's near enough, neither. Trophy (Preferably the FA) and a minimum of 6th, or I hope he's gone in May.

that's whats worrying me, can and will he turn it around, i was hoping he would learn from last season, and lets not forget ,that was some of the most boring football on show since walker was around , but we are back to square one, looking like we haven't a clue.
In defense of him all managers should be allowed a bit of a sticky patch , as long as you can see were we are trying to get to, there are some good signs with him bringing in good kids, and getting the best out of one or two of them, so hopefully he can take a long hard look at the team and get it sorted.

 

[Saint Domingo]

Also pepe Mel paying 7mn for anichebe and 7mn for jelavic, selling heitinga too

The point is that releasing that sort of money for a very young striker was an incredible show of faith by the Everton board. People can bleat on about TV deals etc. but they hadn't kicked in at that point and when you look round the league there have not been any teams outside of the monied 5 spending 30 mill on one player. It was a huge investment for an absolutely top class player. The type of player that when added to our top 6 squad should have easily differentiated us from the chaff of the league. It is therefore so utterly disappointing to see this player in top form on course for 30 goals in a league season but the team in the bottom half of the premier league when the top 4 is more open than ever. Utterly galling. This should have been a game changer for Everton but Martinez has well and truly missed the boat. Worse than that we were actually in a relegation battle at times last season. Dear me.

Lukaku is one of the world's best strikers already. Look at the impact Suarez had on Liverpool, Bale on Spurs, even Cabaye on Newcastle and now Palace. We've arguably got a stronger support cast than any of those players had! Not only do we have Lukaku but we also have Barkley and Deulofeu two of the continents top attacking talents flanking him with international pedigree like Mirallas sat on the bench.

I thought last season's bottom half finish was one of the worst managerial performances in recent times but if this side finishes bottom half for me it may be one of the worst in prem history and that's not even a joke. There's excuses galore and of course Martinez deserves the credit for bringing these players together but if you can't get a side with 4 world class players into the top half of the prem then you have no business at the top end of football management. The underperformance is criminal and this petty point scoring when we win a game as though coming 8th is a brilliant achievement is quite frankly embarassing. Look at Spurs and Leicester, in my opinion their first 11s are not a patch on ours yet they are right up there challenging for the title as we should have been given the failures of some of the top teams this year. Instead we are not even top half and some are falling it the best football for a generation. Utter delusion.

 

[daz4matty]

that's whats worrying me, can and will he turn it around, i was hoping he would learn from last season, and lets not forget ,that was some of the most boring football on show since walker was around , but we are back to square one, looking like we haven't a clue.
In defense of him all managers should be allowed a bit of a sticky patch , as long as you can see were we are trying to get to, there are some good signs with him bringing in good kids, and getting the best out of one or two of them, so hopefully he can take a long hard look at the team and get it sorted.

After a good 1st season he has been on a sticky patch for a season and a half.
The job is too big for him

 

[blue61]

This is a massive month for us, Man C 3 times , Tott H, Chelsea, Swansea and Dag in the FA Cup....if ever RM wanted a chance to show us what he can do, this is it

Your last sentence is what an increasing number of fans are worried about.

 

[orly]

The point is that releasing that sort of money for a very young striker was an incredible show of faith by the Everton board. People can bleat on about TV deals etc. but they hadn't kicked in at that point and when you look round the league there have not been any teams outside of the monied 5 spending 30 mill on one player. It was a huge investment for an absolutely top class player. The type of player that when added to our top 6 squad should have easily differentiated us from the chaff of the league. It is therefore so utterly disappointing to see this player in top form on course for 30 goals in a league season but the team in the bottom half of the premier league when the top 4 is more open than ever. Utterly galling. This should have been a game changer for Everton but Martinez has well and truly missed the boat. Worse than that we were actually in a relegation battle at times last season. Dear me.

Lukaku is one of the world's best strikers already. Look at the impact Suarez had on Liverpool, Bale on Spurs, even Cabaye on Newcastle and now Palace. We've arguably got a stronger support cast than any of those players had! Not only do we have Lukaku but we also have Barkley and Deulofeu two of the continents top attacking talents flanking him with international pedigree like Mirallas sat on the bench.

I thought last season's bottom half finish was one of the worst managerial performances in recent times but if this side finishes bottom half for me it may be one of the worst in prem history and that's not even a joke. There's excuses galore and of course Martinez deserves the credit for bringing these players together but if you can't get a side with 4 world class players into the top half of the prem then you have no business at the top end of football management. The underperformance is criminal and this petty point scoring when we win a game as though coming 8th is a brilliant achievement is quite frankly embarassing. Look at Spurs and Leicester, in my opinion their first 11s are not a patch on ours yet they are right up there challenging for the title as we should have been given the failures of some of the top teams this year. Instead we are not even top half and some are falling it the best football for a generation. Utter delusion.

Not sure about that, wasn't he playing in the same team as Modric at one point, brilliant player.

Agree about what a stunning waste this season will be with such a wide open league if he fails to turn it around. How we've ended up 5 points behind Palace with the last five fixtures the way they were is beyond me.

 

[orly]

that's whats worrying me, can and will he turn it around, i was hoping he would learn from last season, and lets not forget ,that was some of the most boring football on show since walker was around , but we are back to square one, looking like we haven't a clue.
In defense of him all managers should be allowed a bit of a sticky patch , as long as you can see were we are trying to get to, there are some good signs with him bringing in good kids, and getting the best out of one or two of them, so hopefully he can take a long hard look at the team and get it sorted.

3 wins from 18 last season was a sticky patch @edge - this is now a long slog through tar

 

[Woolly Blue]

I see a very poor GK panicking his young defence into errors.

No, it's more than that. One on one, we often give the opposition too much space. When we're marking them, we're often giving them three or four yards, which means when anyone with decent skills gets tbe ball they have time to control the ball and turn. Which, in turn, means more balls are coming into the box which should be getting snuffed out earlier. We shouldn't be too tight, because we'd run the risk of either getting skinned or giving cheap fouls away, but we need to be tighter.

Galloway was miles away from his man all the time in the first half, but was plainly told what to do at half time because he got a lot closer in the second half. It's not rocket science, but it plainly needs working on. A better keeper would help, as would having Jagielka fit again, but there's a fundamental problem with our defending which needs working on.

It's eminently fixable though, but it's going to be a big part of how Martinez is judged come the end of the season.

 

[hullefc]

I've come to the conclusion that RM is a cup manager, not a league one.

Is that a good or bad thing in your opinion?

 

[daz4matty]

Is that a good or bad thing in your opinion?

Looking at wigan i would say a bad thing do you agree