Roberto Martinez discussion

[WarringtonBlue]

Take a look at the Howard thread

Went off on the supporters saying he knows more about goalkeeping than we do and that our opinions mean nothing to him

Martinez benching him now and saying the comments had something to do with it would probably earn him some brownie points if nothing else

Useless starfish.

 

[davek]

The 07/08 season we got to a league cup semi, broke our PL points record, and got to the last 16 in the UEFA Cup. This was done with a midfield of Osman Arteta Pienaar Cahill and Yakubu playing upfront.

Highlights included topping our UEFA group, beating West Ham away from home twice in three days, taking Fiorentina apart at home, Yakubu hitting 20.

If you think all of this was built on tired old sterile football then you're incorrect. We had a midfield who could dictate a lot of games and some of the interplay with Baines Pienaar Arteta and Osman was brilliant. We literally have Yakubu tap ins that season. Miraculously we also balanced this all with a solid defence. Apparently now though the Europa league is an excuse to turn out relegation form.

Your extremist views on Moyes and Martinez without any acceptance of shades of grey is strange. Both managers have shown themselves to be capable of playing good football and also absolute dour dross.

You're trying to give me a history lesson and I witnessed it all. Again, the examples of good games. They're called 'exceptions to the rule' mate.

I dont know if you're trying to rehabilitate the name of that feller or what. It's what seems to happen when we suffer a run of poor form under Martinez, but it simply wont do. It's a rewriting of history that cant stand. I stuck with Moyes through hell and high water in the first half of his reign here and I hoped against hope he could add flair and success to the grittiness. He couldn't. He just didn't have it in his make up. He was a dour manager and completely without creative impulse.

Whatever is going on now please dont try and argue that what we witnessed back then was a manager and a club offering Evertonians football that we could be proud of. We didn't.

 

[Smodger]

Take a look at the Howard thread

Went off on the supporters saying he knows more about goalkeeping than we do and that our opinions mean nothing to him

Martinez benching him now and saying the comments had something to do with it would probably earn him some brownie points if nothing else

If Tim Howard is in goal Sunday I'm sorry but brown shoes has lost the plot.

 

[TheHumbleEgg]

I cant believe people are actually still defending that ginger weapon.

I can't believe that someone with such a clear inability/unwillingness to seize control and address the problems that EVERYONE else sees can be described as 'INNOVATIVE'...

 

[Saint Domingo]

I cant believe people are actually still defending that ginger weapon.

There'd be no defence of him against reasoned balanced and statistically accurate criticism. There are a lot of targets people can legitimately aim at.

Instead though you get this wild hysterical and erroneous assessment of the entirety of Moyes' reign as 'dinosaur football' and what's worse is it's usually mixed with an erroneous comparison to Martinez. I've already read that Martinez doesn't sit back on leads and has a good record at the top grounds. Baffling.

 

[Kev The Rat]

I cant believe people are actually still defending that ginger weapon.

Dave even you must see that what Martinez is practicing at the moment is not total football but kamikaze football. Any opportunity to throw every man forward is taken with no regard whatsoever to the defensive outcome of flooding everyone forward and out of position

 

[orly]

I can't believe that someone with such a clear inability/unwillingness to seize control and address the problems that EVERYONE else sees can be described as 'INNOVATIVE'...

Apparently we are playing football that is the 'envy of everyone'... except, er, the other 10 teams higher than us in the league... and the home crowd that has seen us win 10 home games in the last 29 (losing nine)... and the journalists who think we should be doing much better than we are doing with the current squad.. er...

 

[davek]

Exactly right

But the question isn't what Moyes did or didn't do...It's about what Martinez does and doesn't do

Yes, and on that point it's clear for anyone not swayed and buffeted off course by the odd strong wind that we are playing at a level of football unimaginable when Moyes was here and in a style that, if persevered with and strengthened, can bear fruit. Moyes was here for 11 seasons; Martinez has been here 2 and a half. Martinez has done things for this club Moyes could never have done if he'd been here 20 years.

Anyone seriously comparing Moyes favourably with Martinez needs locking up for their own good. They dont have a clue.

 

[Saint Domingo]

You're trying to give me a history lesson and I witnessed it all. Again, the examples of good games. They're called 'exceptions to the rule' mate.

I dont know if you're trying to rehabilitate the name of that feller or what. It's what seems to happen when we suffer a run of poor form under Martinez, but it simply wont do. It's a rewriting of history that cant stand. I stuck with Moyes through hell and high water in the first half of his reign here and I hoped against hope he could add flair and success to the grittiness. He couldn't. He just didn't have it in his make up. He was a dour manager and completely without creative impulse.

Whatever is going on now please dont try and argue that what we witnessed back then was a manager and a club offering Evertonians football that we could be proud of. We didn't.

It's just differences of opinion though. I don't believe the current manager is offering up football to be proud of (considering that he's ignoring 50% of the equation) but you think he's reinvented the wheel. It's pointless carrying on with this.

 

[davek]

Dave even you must see that what Martinez is practicing at the moment is not total football but kamikaze football. Any opportunity to throw every man forward is taken with no regard whatsoever to the defensive outcome of flooding everyone forward and out of position

I see a very poor GK panicking his young defence into errors.

Nothing major wrong with us. Only those desperate to see the back of Martinez and a return to agricultural football believe there is.

 

[TheHumbleEgg]

There'd be no defence of him against reasoned balanced and statistically accurate criticism. There are a lot of targets people can legitimately aim at.

Instead though you get this wild hysterical and erroneous assessment of the entirety of Moyes' reign as 'dinosaur football' and what's worse is it's usually mixed with an erroneous comparison to Martinez. I've already read that Martinez doesn't sit back on leads and has a good record at the top grounds. Baffling.

You know what's funny about it though (except it's not, it's not really funny)....

The MOYES years, wiped essentially, deemed irrelevant/unworthy/bland....Yet MARTINEZ record at WIGAN, nah, no need to mention that, not really relevant.

As y'say mate, baffling....

 

[Whistlin' Dixie]

It's been over a year since we visibly wilted at spurts & broadcasted the message about our weaknesses far & wide, yet we haven't done owt whatsoever to to tweak it.

In that time we've kept something like 13 cleans in ALL competitions. Even barnsley can put three past us. We've gone from being one of the best teams in the country at set plays, to perhaps the worst - at BOTH ends.

We're just not very good. Certainly not better than our league placing suggests. The table doesn't lie.

 

[orly]

I see a very poor GK panicking his young defence into errors.

Nothing major wrong with us. Only those desperate to see the back of Martinez and a return to agricultural football believe there is.

Our record against the teams currently above us in the table us appalling. Played 10, won 0, drawn 5, lost 5. Seven of those games were at home as well.

Looks like all we need are some subtle adjustments... but hey, @hullefc reckons our defenders can coach themselves back to form. Is it like a Paul McKenna audiobook they use?

 

[Foot Long Hot Dog]

Yes, and on that point it's clear for anyone not swayed and buffeted off course by the odd strong wind that we are playing at a level of football unimaginable when Moyes was here and in a style that, if persevered with and strengthened, can bear fruit. Moyes was here for 11 seasons; Martinez has been here 2 and a half. Martinez has done things for this club Moyes could never have done if he'd been here 20 years.

Anyone seriously comparing Moyes favourably with Martinez needs locking up for their own good. They dont have a clue.

Sorry but that's also absolute drivel.

Martinez has achieved nothing at Goodsion yet. Pretty passing football isn't an achievement when it's not pretty passing winning football Dave, and until he gets someone to work with him on the defensive side of the game, he's not going to either.

 

[davek]

I can't believe that someone with such a clear inability/unwillingness to seize control and address the problems that EVERYONE else sees can be described as 'INNOVATIVE'...

These are individual mistakes piling up. The one big criticism I have of Martinez is that he will not drop Howard in league games. That move staunches the problem almost immediately yet it's not done, which I find baffling.

But that concession does not nullify the larger point made here.