Roberto Martinez discussion

[Saint Domingo]

You know what's funny about it though (except it's not, it's not really funny)....

The MOYES years, wiped essentially, deemed irrelevant/unworthy/bland....Yet MARTINEZ record at WIGAN, nah, no need to mention that, not really relevant.

As y'say mate, baffling....

I honestly don't mind any criticism of Moyes or praise of Martinez if it's accurate. Half of it isn't though. We've lost countless leads under Martinez and have that one 1-0 win at OT (where everyone won that year) out of our games v top sides. As of yet this season we haven't beaten a side in the top ten yet Martinez is getting hailed for his winning approach to big games. Moyes is getting shafted for the cup semi yet the last 4 derbies under Martinez have all been terrible in different ways with 13/14 away and 14/15 home the two worst Derby performances in my living memory for different reasons.

Both managers have strengths and weaknesses that are very easy to identify. Those people trying to convince others that sewer water is wine though is ridiculous.

 

[Lowste]

You don't agree that Howard needs replacing - you must blind or [Poor language removed] stupid!

If you read the post I am replying to, I am agreeing in dropping Howard

I won't take offence to your abusive comment

 

[jayden28]

Apparently we are playing football that is the 'envy of everyone'... except, er, the other 10 teams higher than us in the league... and the home crowd that has seen us win 10 home games in the last 29 (losing nine)... and the journalists who think we should be doing much better than we are doing with the current squad.. er...

Plus the pathetic 16 wins in 55 odd games too,we are nothing but a average premier league team that play decent stuff at times.

 

[davek]

Sorry but that's also absolute drivel.

Martinez has achieved nothing at Goodsion yet. Pretty passing football isn't an achievement when it's not pretty passing winning football Dave, and until he gets someone to work with him on the defensive side of the game, he's not going to either.

Where did I call it an achievement?

It's a level of attacking play that we haven't seen at Goodison since Kendall was here first time around. Am I wrong in that assertion? If I am, I'd like you to point to another manager who's had us playing such attractive football.

 

[daz4matty]

I see a very poor GK panicking his young defence into errors.

Nothing major wrong with us. Only those desperate to see the back of Martinez and a return to agricultural football believe there is.

Who's fault is it that howard plays and who went with an inexperienced defence from the start of the season.
Who cannot stop us leaking goals.
Go on you can say it the answer is the manager.
You are so blind to him its scary

 

[neil999]

You know what's funny about it though (except it's not, it's not really funny)....

The MOYES years, wiped essentially, deemed irrelevant/unworthy/bland....Yet MARTINEZ record at WIGAN, nah, no need to mention that, not really relevant.

As y'say mate, baffling....

have you seen where wigan are now?

 

[Saint Domingo]

These are individual mistakes piling up. The one big criticism I have of Martinez is that he will not drop Howard in league games. That move staunches the problem almost immediately yet it's not done, which I find baffling.

But that concession does not nullify the larger point made here.

You can't divorce 'individual mistakes' from Martinez but credit him for Lukaku's individual goalscoring. He either owns both or neither. The errors his defence make are his (especially as they've persisted for 18 months) as much as Lukaku's goals are.

 

[davek]

You can't divorce 'individual mistakes' from Martinez but credit him for Lukaku's individual goalscoring. He either owns both or neither. The errors his defence make are his (especially as they've persisted for 18 months) as much as Lukaku's goals are.

Didn't I just do that with the Howard point??!!

Maybe you could credit him with Lukaku's purchase and form?

 

[daz4matty]

How do you know he doesn't do anything about it?

Watch the games mate

 

[neil999]

if we get a new keeper in jan, would those wanting Martinez gone give him a chance to see what difference it makes?

 

[Saint Domingo]

Didn't I just do that with the Howard point??!!

Maybe you could credit him with Lukaku's purchase and form?

Where have I said he doesn't deserve credit for that? Yes you've done it with Howard but your opening point was that 'it's just individual errors piling up'. They're not just Howard's and his errors are not the sole reason behind our poor defence. Martinez selects Howard as well. Everything that is wrong and right with this team is down to Martinez and he deserves the rightful praise and criticism for it.

 

[maccavennie]

I see a very poor GK panicking his young defence into errors.

Nothing major wrong with us. Only those desperate to see the back of Martinez and a return to agricultural football believe there is.

Whose fault is the goalkeeping situation Dave and who persists with not fixing the problem?

That falls directly at Martinez's door and we are not going anywhere without that getting addressed. So for all that Martinez has got right and all the positives we can talk about, he has such a glaring weakness that for me overshadows all of that because he simply can't either a) set up a team to win games consistently or b) has an issue with choosing the wrong personel.

There's no way Dave even you at the end of the season would surely accept if we finish 10th-14th with a striker whose just banged in 20+ goals and say that is acceptable because that's why we are likely to finish.

Lovely free flowing football only works of you have the results to back them up. Let's be honest when we went 3-2 yesterday did you think "that's us sorted for the win now"? I don't and I don't think anyone else did, we looked naive and it was pathetic tbh that no direction from the manager was given to sit deep,make the last defensive sub and then try and hit them on the counter.

There's just no thought within that squad or management to just dig deep and sit on a win, christ we couldn't hold out for 20 seconds against Bournemouth so there was no chance they were going to do it for 20 minutes without some kind of change being made.

18 months now mate and counting of piss poor results. How much longer does he get in your opinion as last Christmas we all said we'll he should be given until this Christmas to see how he's done. Would you give him this season plus all of next?

I would give him all of this and next if I saw signs of progression collectively as a team but all I see are a gang of players running forward like 6 year olds chasing a ball with no regard for any defensive duties and us getting caught out time after time and then when it does come to the last line of defence ( Howard ), well the less I mention about him the better I think.

 

[toffee matt]

if we get a new keeper in jan, would those wanting Martinez gone give him a chance to see what difference it makes?

Some of these people never wanted him from the start

 

[daz4matty]

if we get a new keeper in jan, would those wanting Martinez gone give him a chance to see what difference it makes?

Its the tactics he needs to change as well.
Results will play a big part but playing howard every game is insanity

 

[hktoffee]

if we get a new keeper in jan, would those wanting Martinez gone give him a chance to see what difference it makes?

Till the end of this season.