Roberto Martinez discussion

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AaronTheBlue said:
Personally mate, (i remember your very valid points on Moyes, and i actually agreed with a lot of them at the time btw) i think you're letting your hatred / bored of moyes nature stop you from seeing things as they are. Martinez had a great first season, but he is not that manager anymore.

I hope he turns it around, come the end of the season, i hope i'm made to shut up, because at the end of the day i want best for Everton.. but with this squad this first team.. [i don't think he uses enough of the squad as a whole anymore, either] anything below sixth place is a failure, you know that Dave.

But i think you've backed yourself in a corner for so long with the fight for him that you can't see any of his failures other than not dropping Tim Howard, where as if it was the other fella' you'd be picking out every single one of his failures (inability to be ruthless, seeming inability to get more than two wins on the trot consecutively, inability to have any form of defensive coaching semblance) all these are extremely big faults, and are holding us back. Don't get me wrong he has some great things as well, his building on with the academy, his football at times is brilliant to watch, and his charisma at first are all great, great traits.

Do i think he's a bad manager myself?, no.. i think he is average, i think he had the potential to be great.. in his first season but he's no longer a proactive manager, he's reactive and a little tactically naive, and afraid to take attacking chances. He's lost what made him fantastic.

What i'm asking of you though mate, is to judge him without the viewpoint that you have, because right now it's extremely bias because he ISN'T moyes.. see it from in the middle and you know a lot of the things he is doing is unacceptable.
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I dont see it as biased at all. I see it as giving balance to the hail of criticism from the usual suspects who never wanted this manager here in the first place. As for Martinez needing to 'turn it around': what exactly does that mean? What has gone so wrong that it needs a drastic change of events to make it right again? We're a handful of points from a European spot, we're into a cup SF, the team are scoring for fun - something we as supporters haven't seen for years and years. Is there criticism to be had? Of course. The defence needs to be much more solid and the GK needs to be replaced by a seemingly unwilling manager. But I see nothing drastically wrong here. Rewind the clock to a few weeks ago and everyone is happy enough.

I cant take seriously the fickle jumping around over Martinez. It's just daft...and it was something ginger bollocks never had to contend with, and he had us finishing 17th one season. This constant "should he be sacked or backed" debate is debilitating for the whole organisation, fans more than most. It has to stop. He's our manager and will be for at least the length of this current contract. It's ok the internet chairmen of the club on here and other forums talking about "giving him time to the end of the season to persuade me". They have zero control over anything. Their fickle thoughts mean nothing. This manager has been here a short space of time compared with the last one. He should be afforded the time and the credit he deserves to roll his plan and vision out. And anyone who doesn't think this Everton team are infinitely better right now than the muck Moyes teams served up for the bulk of the time need their head feeling.
 

PhilM said:
In real life yes; I was referring to the factions which have emerged on here which are usually more militant than in the real world.
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Me too.. I think virtually all see both sides of the coin, but both believe their side is more relevant - past trend v future potential I guess. Unfortunately as the past failings increase, the potential seems to be increasing too. Catch 22.

Not seen any saying he's all great or all bad. Well except Davek of course.
 
Zatara said:
Whats ball said, do you have a link?
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sorry mate , the 'positivity' is bull--he just says the same things over and over again-'a good moment', 'phenomenal'--I want him to do well but his defensive game has never been any good. Top sides build on a sound defence no matter how much flair they have--barring Arsenal that is--but even they can't win the league with the most talented team because of their defence. Maybe they just might do it this year as everybody is taking points off everyone else--ESPECIALLY US!!!
 
jonesboy said:
sorry mate , the 'positivity' is bull--he just says the same things over and over again-'a good moment', 'phenomenal'--I want him to do well but his defensive game has never been any good. Top sides build on a sound defence no matter how much flair they have--barring Arsenal that is--but even they can't win the league with the most talented team because of their defence. Maybe they just might do it this year as everybody is taking points off everyone else--ESPECIALLY US!!!
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They have a better GK.:rant:
 

Next Everton Manager odds (more than one number, different site, all x/1)

Michael Laudrup 8 9
Alan Stubbs 10
Eddie Howe 10
Duncan Ferguson 10 14
Jurgen Klinsmann 16
Laurent Blanc 16 12
A Villas-Boas 14 20
Carlo Ancelotti 20
David Moyes 5 20
Frank Rijkaard 20 16
T Hibbert 20
T Pulis 20
T Tuchel 20
G Poyet 25 20
Guus Hiddink 25 16
Harry Redknapp 14 25
Marcelo Bielsa 25
R Hodgson 25
S Bilic 14 25
Steve Clarke 25
Ralf Rangnick 12 28
Brendan Rodgers 33 25
Jamie Carragher 16 33
R Mancini 33
Roy Keane 33
Sami Hyypia 25 33
G Zola 40
Martin Jol 20 40
Martin ONeill 33 40
Owen Coyle 40
Paul Lambert 40 40
Rafael Benitez 40
S McClaren 25 40
SG Eriksson 40
D Simeone 50
David OLeary 50
Jose Mourinho 50
Luis Enrique 50 25
Manuel Pelligrini 50
Mark Hughes 12 50
Neil Lennon 25 50
Ole Solskjaer 50
Paolo Di Canio 50
Phil Scolari 50
Philip Neville 16 50
Terry Venables 50
Alan Pardew 16 66
Kevin Keegan 66
Pep Guardiola 66 50
Robbie Fowler 66
Joe Royle 80
Jurgen Klopp 20 80
Leon Osman 80
Barry Horne 100
Bill Kenwright 100
Darren Ferguson 100
Gareth Barry 100
Gary Lineker 100
Kenny Dalglish 100
Mike Walker 100
Paul Rideout 100
Peter Beardsley 100
Steven Gerrard 40 100



OSMAN IN
 
Ihaters said:
Not sure anyone should be slated for getting behind their manager, as long as its within reason (Dave..), think your smugness is kind of undermined by the fact that to be in that position to be right, Everton have to be doing wrong.
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Whatever is best for Everton in the long term without sacrificing the short term. Basically Martinez should stay because he is building a young team, yet if there is no success now then they wont be here long term. Yet building short term with no long term aim is also a dodgy path to go down.

At the end of the day its night or something.
 
I cannot think of any manager that has took over a team with limited resources such as Everton and taken them to the top 4 barring a one off. History points to only heavily resourced teams making and possibly sustaining a top 4 position. What I have seen is managers only being able to tread water with limited teams at best and only if they are either playing anti-football or have taken them into the relegation zone have they been sacked. Changing managers each or every other season has not resulted in great progress. Martinez is manager of a limited resourced team but is getting vilified for not being a challenging club. By all rights we shouldn't be anywhere near Liverpool, the Manchester clubs, Chelsea, Arsenal, Spurs. The rest of W.Ham, Stoke, Palace, Newcastle and a few others are at our resource level, some slightly below and some above.

We shouldn't expect success as we can only hope for success. If we had the finances equal or even slightly less than the richer clubs only then would I expect success and only then would I be wanting the manager removed if he hadn't brought any in several seasons.
 

All the Martinez lovers in here scared of us bringing Mourinho in and El Fraudo being further exposed.

#WelcomeJose
 
banno said:
I cannot think of any manager that has took over a team with limited resources such as Everton and taken them to the top 4 barring a one off. History points to only heavily resourced teams making and possibly sustaining a top 4 position. What I have seen is managers only being able to tread water with limited teams at best and only if they are either playing anti-football or have taken them into the relegation zone have they been sacked. Changing managers each or every other season has not resulted in great progress. Martinez is manager of a limited resourced team but is getting vilified for not being a challenging club. By all rights we shouldn't be anywhere near Liverpool, the Manchester clubs, Chelsea, Arsenal, Spurs. The rest of W.Ham, Stoke, Palace, Newcastle and a few others are at our resource level, some slightly below and some above.

We shouldn't expect success as we can only hope for success. If we had the finances equal or even slightly less than the richer clubs only then would I expect success and only then would I be wanting the manager removed if he hadn't brought any in several seasons.
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Funnily enough, if that first season hadn't been so competitive then 72 points would have achieved exactly that.

We've had a great season followed by a disappointing one followed by now a promising one.

Anyone who doesn't accept that is a sandwich short of a full picnic.
 

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