Roberto Martinez discussion

[PhilM]

The issue here is less about our current situation yet rather the future expectations of the club and whether Martinez can fulfil them.

Pro-Martinez supporters and anti-Martinez supporters alike aren't 'happy' with our current situation and understand we're underperforming.

Therefore it boils down to whether you believe Martinez can make the necessary improvements or not; and if he so will they be in a suitable period.

I think as time goes on more people are swinging from Pro-Martinez, or at mainly least undecided, towards questioning his tenure as manager.

I asked myself: are there signs within each season that we're in the right direction? Are we making progress year-on-year?

The longer we underperform and consistently show unaddressed weaknesses the harder it is to honestly reply yes to each question.

That may be his eventual downfall unless he beings to induce some form of positive reforms. Flashy football before results isn't enough.

 

[squonk]

Hilarious hearing the MAJORITY of pro Martinez fans having a go at the anti Martinez faction, the pro's said lets give it until Christmas with the smugness of 'I bet we will be top 5, that will shut the haters up'. Now were at Christmas and we are tenth vastly underachieving in the league (given the squad we have) although we do have a milk cup semi final (something nobody cared about until this season......) im sorry pro Martinez section but he hasn't got us in the top 5 so far, bend over and take it dry from the anti Martinez faction, once its all said and done and we have played 38 games just pray that Martinez has improved otherwise it will be more of the sudocrem and soft seating for you lot

(Still hope your right though)......

very graphically put

 

[diggerdestroyer]

Still got ages to go like. Hopefully he turns it around, and starts to learn from his mistakes and shuts up all his doubters.

But i don't think that'll happen.

Does this make u a doubter!!

 

[MACCA75]

This season we've been taking a gun to a knife fight and have ended up with severe stab wounds.

 

[Ihaters]

Hilarious hearing the MAJORITY of pro Martinez fans having a go at the anti Martinez faction, the pro's said lets give it until Christmas with the smugness of 'I bet we will be top 5, that will shut the haters up'. Now were at Christmas and we are tenth vastly underachieving in the league (given the squad we have) although we do have a milk cup semi final (something nobody cared about until this season......) im sorry pro Martinez section but he hasn't got us in the top 5 so far, bend over and take it dry from the anti Martinez faction, once its all said and done and we have played 38 games just pray that Martinez has improved otherwise it will be more of the sudocrem and soft seating for you lot

(Still hope your right though)......

Not sure anyone should be slated for getting behind their manager, as long as its within reason (Dave..), think your smugness is kind of undermined by the fact that to be in that position to be right, Everton have to be doing wrong.

 

[deipnosophist]

This season we've been taking a gun to a knife fight and have ended up with severe stab wounds.

lol imo, one of the great posts

 

[Ihaters]

The issue here is less about our current situation yet rather the future expectations of the club and whether Martinez can fulfil them.

Pro-Martinez supporters and anti-Martinez supporters alike aren't 'happy' with our current situation and understand we're underperforming.

Therefore it boils down to whether you believe Martinez can make the necessary improvements or not; and if he so will they be in a suitable period.

I think as time goes on more people are swinging from Pro-Martinez, or at mainly least undecided, towards questioning his tenure as manager.

I asked myself: are there signs within each season that we're in the right direction? Are we making progress year-on-year?

The longer we underperform and consistently show unaddressed weaknesses the harder it is to honestly reply yes to each question.

That may be his eventual downfall unless he beings to induce some form of positive reforms. Flashy football before results isn't enough.

Oddly i'm the opposite.
First two seasons I didn't rate him, thought we plodded along up front, no sign of this miraculous attacking play we were destined to see, we got through on some individual brilliance and large amounts of luck game after game.

This season, is the first I have bought into the playing style, its faster, more flair based, team orientated and as an attacking force yielding results in the form of some lovely team goals.

All we need to do is stop backing off from the halfway line into our own penalty area when the opposition has the ball and I'm convinced we will start to climb. Oh and stop the odd corner going into our net.

I don't like that one of his first interviews was a lie, or another early one claimed CL was likely, and I don't like that a defeat is such a happy event for him, but if he can sort the defence we are in good hands, i'm convinced of it.. Its just a massive if at current.

 

[dannyboy]

The issue here is less about our current situation yet rather the future expectations of the club and whether Martinez can fulfil them.

Pro-Martinez supporters and anti-Martinez supporters alike aren't 'happy' with our current situation and understand we're underperforming.

Therefore it boils down to whether you believe Martinez can make the necessary improvements or not; and if he so will they be in a suitable period.

I think as time goes on more people are swinging from Pro-Martinez, or at mainly least undecided, towards questioning his tenure as manager.

I asked myself: are there signs within each season that we're in the right direction? Are we making progress year-on-year?

The longer we underperform and consistently show unaddressed weaknesses the harder it is to honestly reply yes to each question.

That may be his eventual downfall unless he beings to induce some form of positive reforms. Flashy football before results isn't enough.

It's ridiculous we've got people who are pro anything other than Everton doing well. If we're not showing signs of progress then I see absolutely no reason why serious questions shouldn't be asked in the summer.

The sad thing is that as long as we're not in serious danger of going down then Martinez has a job here for as long as he wants it.

 

[dannyboy]

Oddly i'm the opposite.
First two seasons I didn't rate him, thought we plodded along up front, no sign of this miraculous attacking play we were destined to see, we got through on some individual brilliance and large amounts of luck game after game.

This season, is the first I have bought into the playing style, its faster, more flair based, team orientated and as an attacking force yielding results in the form of some lovely team goals.

All we need to do is stop backing off from the halfway line into our own penalty area when the opposition has the ball and I'm convinced we will start to climb. Oh and stop the odd corner going into our net.

I don't like that one of his first interviews was a lie, or another early one claimed CL was likely, and I don't like that a defeat is such a happy event for him, but if he can sort the defence we are in good hands, i'm convinced of it.. Its just a massive if at current.

There's been huge improvement in the attacking play this year but I'm not convinced it can be maintained if we want to go out and win games against top 10 opposition.

I'd sacrifice some of that flair if it meant us grinding out more wins. The tipping point for me came in that second half against Norwich, I couldn't believe how open we were away from home. Fair play to Martinez for bringing on Gibson and sorting it out that day but he needs to do something to address it over the coming weeks.

 

[PhilM]

It's ridiculous we've got people who are pro anything other than Everton doing well. If we're not showing signs of progress then I see absolutely no reason why serious questions shouldn't be asked in the summer.

It's sadly become a conflict between two sets of fans looking to get one over on the other side, rather than a discussion about Everton as you say.

For the pro-Martinez faction, any failures by Martinez or admitting of their concerns looks badly upon themselves and their own judgements.

Equally for the anti-Martinez group of supporters, they're equally unwilling to accept any small signs of progression for the same reason.

As you rightly mentioned then it should be the interests of the club as a whole that should be paramount, be that with or without Martinez.

 

[dannyboy]

It's sadly become a conflict between two sets of fans looking to get one over on the other side, rather than a discussion about Everton as you say.

For the pro-Martinez faction, any failures by Martinez or admitting of their concerns looks badly upon themselves and their own judgements.

Equally for the anti-Martinez group of supporters, they're equally unwilling to accept any small signs of progression for the same reason.

As you rightly mentioned then it should be the interests of the club as a whole that should be paramount, be that with or without Martinez.

There's been a lot of progression in terms of the attacking play but that's came at the expense of our defence. It's gotten so bad now that we don't actually look like we can win a football match against anyone in the top 10.

People will argue otherwise but for a squad with our ability that's simply not good enough. We shouldn't be looking at the fixture list worried about where our next 3 points are coming from.

 

[mythbuster]

It's sadly become a conflict between two sets of fans looking to get one over on the other side, rather than a discussion about Everton as you say.

For the pro-Martinez faction, any failures by Martinez or admitting of their concerns looks badly upon themselves and their own judgements.

Equally for the anti-Martinez group of supporters, they're equally unwilling to accept any small signs of progression for the same reason.

As you rightly mentioned then it should be the interests of the club as a whole that should be paramount, be that with or without Martinez.

I'm not anti or pro Martinez. In fact, I never wanted Roberto. What I am though, is anti sacking managers on a whim, especially when they're developing a young talented squad and trying to get us playing a brand of football we've not seen for god knows how many years.

 

[PhilM]

There's been a lot of progression in terms of the attacking play but that's came at the expense of our defence. It's gotten so bad now that we don't actually look like we can win a football match against anyone in the top 10.

People will argue otherwise but for a squad with our ability that's simply not good enough. We shouldn't be looking at the fixture list worried about where our next 3 points are coming from.

All things I have mentioned myself, yet I think you're being rather relaxed and reserved by saying anyone in the top ten; I'd argue it's lower.

Going on our recent form I believe Newcastle, City, Spurs and fixtures beyond that will be incredibly difficult as they'll attack our frailties.

I've said before that on the face of it the football may look better, but we're not winning games and that's where the problem lies.

Be that our defensive issues, not scoring enough goals or combination of both I do not know. Yet the table and our current form do not lie...

 

[dannyboy]

I'm not anti or pro Martinez. In fact, I never wanted Roberto. What I am though, is anti sacking managers on a whim, especially when they're developing a young talented squad and trying to get us playing a brand of football we've not seen for god knows how many years.

We're playing a very similar style to what we did in Moyes' last season and Martinez' first. The only difference is we're not getting results.

We know the state of play, if it doesn't happen for us soon this squad of young players won't stay together. We're not Arsene Wenger at Arsenal, we haven't got 5 years to build up these players.

 

[ilikecheese]

It's sadly become a conflict between two sets of fans looking to get one over on the other side, rather than a discussion about Everton as you say.

For the pro-Martinez faction, any failures by Martinez or admitting of their concerns looks badly upon themselves and their own judgements.

Equally for the anti-Martinez group of supporters, they're equally unwilling to accept any small signs of progression for the same reason.

As you rightly mentioned then it should be the interests of the club as a whole that should be paramount, be that with or without Martinez.

See I want what's best for Everton and I'm pro-Martinez. I think he is building something that could have us challenging for stuff.

The biggest question is will he be able to keep it together long enough for it to achieve it's goals. We have some incredible talent in the side that is very young and still developing.

For me the path he is trying to take Everton to becoming an actual title contender is the only path we have due to finances.

Can he get these young players to buy in for the long haul? That remains to be seen. Telling Chelsea to do one in the summer at least in the short term was a revelation.

Even if we are forced to sell, we will make a massive profit and hopefully become an even stronger squad.