Martinez Out?

[tim cahill]

We've been playing Thursday/Sunday football for much of the season. This puts us at a big disadvantage in the league.

It even affects the game at Stoke - they played on Saturday and have had 3 days to recover. We will play 5 games in 14 days, with just 2 days to recover from the last one. It's no wonder we look slow.

I'd like us to get back to the standard pattern - but we've got another difficult run coming up shortly. Which games should we concentrate on - the Europa League or the Premier League?

I can hear the answer now - We've got to play our strongest team! I wonder why Mourinho, Wenger, Pellegrini and Pochettino keep rotating their teams. Someone should tell them that they are doing it all wrong.

I understand that and in agree that it's had an impact. It doesn't explain the team selections, poor tactics and ineffective formations though. We had 3 defensive midfielders on the pitch on Sunday. I never want to see that again.

 

[daz4matty]

I think he is willing to change. Moyes changed his ways too, but importantly that summer Moyes was able to move on particular players who had obviously become a disruptive influence. Obviously Rooney went, who had outlived Everton and Radzinski went having made some quite snide remarks. Linderoth and Gravesen also moved on.

I don't think it is just about a change in style. I think some of the experienced players have lost faith with Martinez. Mirallas's reaction on Sunday told a story. Like with Rooney, when you have a player who thinks they are too good for the club it can have a very corrosive influence. I suspect Mirallas, alongside Distin and Etoo have lost faith in Martinez's abilities.

Martinez does need to change (I feel he has done) but he also needs to move 3-4 on in the summer and find people who want to play for the club. The frustrating thing is, he has bought some really good young players, and brought along some others.

Barkley, Stones and now Garbutt have really made an emergence under Martinez. Lukaku, Besic and McCarthy have done all been good signings. When you throw in the likes of Coleman we have as strong a nucleus of good players as we have had for a while. This is down to Martinez himself and gives me some cause for optimism.

He has not changed enough a bit of tinkering here and there but its not enough.
Against arsenal it was the same tippy tappy slow boring football played mainly in our own half.
He knows its not working as we all do but won't change.
We have got a nucleus of good players but quite a few are going backwards this season just look at barkley.

 

[tim cahill]

I think he is willing to change. Moyes changed his ways too, but importantly that summer Moyes was able to move on particular players who had obviously become a disruptive influence. Obviously Rooney went, who had outlived Everton and Radzinski went having made some quite snide remarks. Linderoth and Gravesen also moved on.

I don't think it is just about a change in style. I think some of the experienced players have lost faith with Martinez. Mirallas's reaction on Sunday told a story. Like with Rooney, when you have a player who thinks they are too good for the club it can have a very corrosive influence. I suspect Mirallas, alongside Distin and Etoo have lost faith in Martinez's abilities.

Martinez does need to change (I feel he has done) but he also needs to move 3-4 on in the summer and find people who want to play for the club. The frustrating thing is, he has bought some really good young players, and brought along some others.

Barkley, Stones and now Garbutt have really made an emergence under Martinez. Lukaku, Besic and McCarthy have done all been good signings. When you throw in the likes of Coleman we have as strong a nucleus of good players as we have had for a while. This is down to Martinez himself and gives me some cause for optimism.

We have a good squad. That's what makes these performances so frustrating. The tactics have eroded everyone's confidence to the point where most of the players you mentioned have looked poor for most of the season.

 

[ijjysmith]

See mate, i dont think we have been awful, i can remember plenty of Everton teams who were (containing Steve Watson up front). We've played well and been competitive in most games and unlucky in the majority. You get nothing for preformences i know but very few games we've looked out of our depth or didnt deserve more from. I listed the names of the young players who are now cornerstones of our team and being developed, if you think back to Moyes's last game none of them were in it. There is a changing of the gaurd and no mistake and the above players need space, time and patience to develop and be the boss players we all know they are. This season is a phase of that development and in many ways a brand new team.

Maybe mate. Maybe.

Sadly it's a results business and where you are right that we've not been smashed by anyone too bad, we still haven't won enough games by miles.

It could be a second season thing. I'm growing towards the idea of giving him the summer and a little way into next season to see how it's going and then making my judgement on him. But I fear the judgement will be not in his favour.

Hope he sorts it all out though. We all want Everton to be boss again, and that means we need the manager to sort it out.

 

[sixtynineseventy]

Never ever wanted an Everton Manager to be sacked (even Mike Walker) and have been supporting the Blues since 1966 - but I'm afraid the RM tenure is worrying me to the point where I have just voted for him to go. His apparent failings been well documented and despite this he still maintains that if Everton keep playing the way we are then the results will come. Can't see it myself and think if he doesn't change his approach (tactics, team selection, format etc,etc) then we will be heading in one direction - and he isn't going to change.

His attitude is as it was at Wigan and look where it got them!! There is some discussion that Wigan went down because their players were not good enough (duurrr!) and that EFC players are much better than what RM had at Wigan and yet the results are going the same way. Wigan got away with relegation a couple of times because they put in a run of 'phenomenal' games to pull it out of the fire. Just.

Can't really see this current EFC side doing that so the safety net of six points is crucial as we enter the latter stages of the season.

We are fortunate that we have Leicester, Burnley, QPR and Aston Villa in the Division this year - all of whom are more likely to go down than us.

Don't really think we will go down this year but the fact that I'm even entertaining that thought is a damning inditement of where we are under RM. (Last season counts for nothing) Sad to say but I don't think he is as good a manager as he thinks he is and when he's gone (whenever that is) then we will still be here with what he leaves behind.

For me he's got to go sooner rather than later. Thank you for last season.

Yours worried from West Kirby!

 

[Mikey_Fitzgerald]

After the result yesterday, I was very negative on Martinez

As it currently stands, I'd be open to giving him another chance next season, barring he doesn't relegate us

He'd be on thin ice though

 

[catcherintherye]

He has not changed enough a bit of tinkering here and there but its not enough.
Against arsenal it was the same tippy tappy slow boring football played mainly in our own half.
He knows its not working as we all do but won't change.
We have got a nucleus of good players but quite a few are going backwards this season just look at barkley.

We could go to play long ball, although in some games we have played more direct. Having said that, in all honesty I don't think you could say that "tippa tappy" Caused the defeat at Arsenal. We missed decent opportunities and we are very susceptible to losing goals off set pieces (something he hasn't addressed all season).

Yesterday we played with 3 Defensive midfielders and Barkley in the false. It didn't work, but we hadn't tried it before.

I think our biggest problem yesterday was we seem to lack pace and creativity in the final third.

 

[Stanley Parker]

I understand that and in agree that it's had an impact. It doesn't explain the team selections, poor tactics and ineffective formations though. We had 3 defensive midfielders on the pitch on Sunday. I never want to see that again.

And I understand that too. It's disappointing, especially since we played them off the pitch last season.

I would say that plenty of Everton managers have failed at Arsenal. We haven't won there since 1996 - when goals from Graham Stewart and Andrei Kanchelskis secured a win. At least Roberto sent them out to make life difficult for Arsenal. And Besic isn't just a destructive player. He can contribute going forwards too.

Also, we are in a run of 5 games in 14 days - it is stretching our resources. Our position is certainly disappointing, but I think we should be patient. Even our next run of games isn't going to be easy - and our patience may be tested further.

 

[davek]

All I'm seeing here is a failure to hold nerve by some (I'm not talking about the usual suspects who have been on Martinez's back since day one, btw, I'm addressing the genuinely open minded but concerned).

The reality is we have to pick up another, say, 7/8 points and that's safety sorted out. Right now we have a 6 point cushion and much better GD if it came down to it (which it wont).

You have to ask yourself whether the doom mongers have spooked you into edging toward deserting Martinez, who has a lot of good ideas and is in the early part of his career with us. We know he can achieve...not only last season with us but with other clubs where he's won them a trophy in the case of Wigan and built one up from the foundations with Swansea. This isn't an unproven man. He's got a lot of talent and I think people who are becoming edgy are caught on the horns of a dilemma of sticking with him now when he needs our support or taking off in a panic and preferring a caretaker to come in and see if that bumps us a few extra points. In reality there's no real choice to be had, because we stand a very good chance of staying up even if we continue to perform only sporadically in the last 11 games.

Stand fast by your manager's side; take the bad times along with the good and we can look forward to better times. Dont let the scaremongers boot a very good manger out the door and send us back to the dark ages with a 'pragmatic' replacement.

 

[mrb85]

And I understand that too. It's disappointing, especially since we played them off the pitch last season.

I would say that plenty of Everton managers have failed at Arsenal. We haven't won there since 1996 - when goals from Graham Stewart and Andrei Kanchelskis secured a win. At least Roberto sent them out to make life difficult for Arsenal. And Besic isn't just a destructive player. He can contribute going forwards too.

Also, we are in a run of 5 games in 14 days - it is stretching our resources. Our position is certainly disappointing, but I think we should be patient. Even our next run of games isn't going to be easy - and our patience may be tested further.

Correct. What a pity then that he was clearly under orders not to go forward.

 

[wiggum23]

All I'm seeing here is a failure to hold nerve by some (I'm not talking about the usual suspects who have been on Martinez's back since day one, btw, I'm addressing the genuinely open minded but concerned).

The reality is we have to pick up another, say, 7/8 points and that's safety sorted out. Right now we have a 6 point cushion and much better GD if it came down to it (which it wont).

You have to ask yourself whether the doom mongers have spooked you into edging toward deserting Martinez, who has a lot of good ideas and is in the early part of his career with us. We know he can achieve...not only last season with us but with other clubs where he's won them a trophy in the case of Wigan and built one up from the foundations with Swansea. This isn't an unproven man. He's got a lot of talent and I think people who are becoming edgy are caught on the horns of a dilemma of sticking with him now when he needs our support or taking off in a panic and preferring a caretaker to come in and see if that bumps us a few extra points. In reality there's no real choice to be had, because we stand a very good chance of staying up even if we continue to perform only sporadically in the last 11 games.

Stand fast by your manager's side; take the bad times along with the good and we can look forward to better times. Dont let the scaremongers boot a very good manger out the door and send us back to the dark ages with a 'pragmatic' replacement.

We won't go down I agree and I desperately want Martinez to turn it around as he is young and could mould our squad for a long time.

However, the issue for me is that he has changed a winning formula of last year. Why should anything be different next year? If the answer is that he will bring in players to "suit his playing style" that doesn't wash. Did the players last year who got the highest PL points title not suit the style as they are the same this year pretty much?

Again, I want him to turn it around, but he needs to change things and if he isn't looking to change things in the position we are in now, why would he next year?

Genuine question Dave ?

 

[davek]

We won't go down I agree and I desperately want Martinez to turn it around as he is young and could mould our squad for a long time.

However, the issue for me is that he has changed a winning formula of last year. Why should anything be different next year? If the answer is that he will bring in players to "suit his playing style" that doesn't wash. Did the players last year who got the highest PL points title not suit the style?

Again, I want him to turn it around, but he needs to change things and if he isn't looking to change things in the position we are in now, why would he next year?

Genuine question Dave ?

I go back to the point I've been hammering away on all this season: he failed to take apart the Moyes' era team last summer (or start to). He's fallen for the mistake of thinking he could adapt even further the players passed down to him from the previous regime. That's the area he has to address in the summer: get his own players in who can play the system he wants. He's rightly bemoaned the absence of possession based players like Osman and Pienaar this season...but that goes back to his summer inactivity: they should have both been down the road and their successors brought in. All that negligence has impacted on team selection and force fitting players into strange positions.

It's well within grasp, a recovery. Even now we play some very tidy stuff but we're lame in making it tell.

It's a personnel issue, not a methodological one.

I tell you what: we get rid of Martinez and some neanderthal to replace him at our peril. Moyes was killing morale before he went with his style...it was only the knowledge that he'd be off pretty soon that made the last few seasons tolerable to live with.

'Be careful what you wish' for is the old adage.

 

[sixtynineseventy]

Not a question of holding my nerve or being patient - good knows I've been patient over the years like everyone else.

Just don't think he is a good enough manager as he has created a boring style of football that in theory should deliver results with the squad we currently have. But it isn't. Must be a unique ability he has to get a team to consistently play below their real capabilities.

Possession without purpose is pointless!

The performances and (ultimately) results this season are confirming this.

 

[Dymak]

I'm dreading the damage he will do during the summer transfer window, only for him to be sacked in December. I'm also worried about the effect that Martinez' disastrous appointment has had on the expectation levels at Everton, apparently it's now alright to be languishing in the bottom half of the table, just as long we don't get relegated. He has set us back years, and I wonder just how far we will regress before he finally gets given the boot.

 

[TheFinnFan]

All I'm seeing here is a failure to hold nerve by some (I'm not talking about the usual suspects who have been on Martinez's back since day one, btw, I'm addressing the genuinely open minded but concerned).

The reality is we have to pick up another, say, 7/8 points and that's safety sorted out. Right now we have a 6 point cushion and much better GD if it came down to it (which it wont).

You have to ask yourself whether the doom mongers have spooked you into edging toward deserting Martinez, who has a lot of good ideas and is in the early part of his career with us. We know he can achieve...not only last season with us but with other clubs where he's won them a trophy in the case of Wigan and built one up from the foundations with Swansea. This isn't an unproven man. He's got a lot of talent and I think people who are becoming edgy are caught on the horns of a dilemma of sticking with him now when he needs our support or taking off in a panic and preferring a caretaker to come in and see if that bumps us a few extra points. In reality there's no real choice to be had, because we stand a very good chance of staying up even if we continue to perform only sporadically in the last 11 games.

Stand fast by your manager's side; take the bad times along with the good and we can look forward to better times. Dont let the scaremongers boot a very good manger out the door and send us back to the dark ages with a 'pragmatic' replacement.

So very much this.
Away defeat at Emirates and that breaks the camels back....for so many.

Everybody should just calm the *** down.