Martinez Out?

MARTINEZ OUT?

  • YES

    Votes: 250 46.5%

  • NO

    Votes: 288 53.5%
  • Total voters
    538
Status
Not open for further replies.
Tubey said:
Indeed. So perhaps you arrived at the conclusion that Martinez is a better manager than many thought a bit too soon as well eh? Given your rationale behind supporting Martinez is what he did immediately rather than what he's done in the longer term.
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The key there is long term.

Maybe you and the other kneejerkers could try it?
 

MACCA75 said:
We played some cracking football under Moyes at times, the football in the final third was often excellent - far more ideas and movement than we've seen this season.

For some reason though, some people have already re-written history and have us down as Late 80's Wimbledon or Pulis' Stoke team. Kind of disregards the fact that the Moyes era was largely based upon the intelligent on the deck football from Ossie, Pienaar and Arteta in midfield.
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I wasn't though. It was exemplified by getting the ball asap to the opposition area or just outside it and playing for a knock down to the likes of Cahill. That was our signature move.

It was THE tactic deployed and there's no way we can airbrush that.
 
Tubey said:
So hang on - you judge the guy after his first season, yet those judging him by his entire tenure are the knee jerkers here??!

Bloody hell.
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I actually didn't make a big song and dance about Martinez's first season triumph when it happened. I half expected a very decent season. He exceeded that though. I made no claim other than I wanted him as manger and it was working out. I was and am very critical of Martinez's transfer policy this summer and the decisions he made or failed to make in games this season. That's all true.

That's the problem when attacking me over Martinez: I fully accept how poor its been (and so do others who want to retain him).

You see, the 'Martinez In' camp is much more complex than the simple and simplistic position taken up by the 'sack him' brigade...a faction you have hitched your wagon to.
 
davek said:
I wasn't though. It was exemplified by getting the ball asap to the opposition area or just outside it and playing for a knock down to the likes of Cahill. That was our signature move.

It was THE tactic deployed and there's no way we can airbrush that.
Click to expand...

If that was all we did then we wouldn't have bothered with lightweight technical midfield players. Gravesen too was a great footballer. And you could say our signature move was the generally excellent link up play between Baines and Pienaar.

We mixed it up, which was effective. It wasn't consistently good, but with our budget, that would have been virtually impossible.
 

davek said:
I actually didn't make a big song and dance about Martinez's first season triumph when it happened. I half expected a very decent season. He exceeded that though. I made no claim other than I wanted him as manger and it was working out. I was and am very critical of Martinez's transfer policy this summer and the decisions he made or failed to make in games this season. That's all true.

That's the problem when attacking me over Martinez: I fully accept how poor its been (and so do others who want to retain him).

You see, the 'Martinez In' camp is much more complex than the simple and simplistic position taken up by the 'sack him' brigade...a faction you have hitched your wagon to.
Click to expand...

That's not an answer - that's basically saying, "yes, I understand what everyone is saying about Martinez - but I don't really give a toss personally."

That's fine, that's your view. But you're calling people kneejerkers - yet we're approaching March with six wins in twenty-six games; when does criticising one of the worst Premier League performances in our history (given prior performance and squad quality) stop being 'kneejerk'
 
MACCA75 said:
If that was all we did then we wouldn't have bothered with lightweight technical midfield players. Gravesen too was a great footballer. And you could say our signature move was the generally excellent link up play between Baines and Pienaar.

We mixed it up, which was effective. It wasn't consistently good, but with our budget, that would have been virtually impossible.
Click to expand...

That was a positive feature, yes. But we almost exclusively had our 'ground game' based on that one trick pony until Coleman was used on the other flank. Then the dullard Moyes started dropping Coleman after any mistake made.

He was a mediocre manager who relied on graft even we had the players who could achieve much much more...as Martinez showed him last season.
 
davek said:
chris, you were rejecting Martinez even BEFORE he'd even signed a contract...then you spent the first season lying low or tipping up on the odd occasion when we played poorly or were beaten. In other words: you have zero credibility in a debate about the suitability or otherwise of Roberto Martinez as Everton manager. You just dont...and you know it.
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No I never. I've proved this on numerous occasions now, all of which you seem not to acknowledge.

And I more entitled to an opinion than you my dear blindsided friend. I pay towards his wages, so yes I do.

Its you who has no credibility in this argument, watching MOTD or Sky Game of the Day and then spouting about this amazing football that we are not playing. Blaming Jags, Disting, Howard, Osman Pienaar...in fact anyone even linked to Moyes you hate, i mean you really hate like a twisted old man. You're quite a strange cat
 
Tubey said:
That's not an answer - that's basically saying, "yes, I understand what everyone is saying about Martinez - but I don't really give a toss personally."

That's fine, that's your view. But you're calling people kneejerkers - yet we're approaching March with six wins in twenty-six games; when does criticising one of the worst Premier League performances in our history (given prior performance and squad quality) stop being 'kneejerk'
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It's been going on (as you well know) since the end of November!! Go back and check the date of the first of these 'Martinez out' polls.

If that's not kneejerk then maybe you can come up with a different definition of it for me?
 
davek said:
It's been going on (as you well know) since the end of November!! Go back and check the date of the first of these 'Martinez out' polls.

If that's not kneejerk then maybe you can come up with a different definition of it for me?
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That's fine, those that did that, yeah, kneejerking. Of course there's going to be elements of any fanbase who always want the manager gone, no matter what, or always want the manager to stay, no matter what.

But January or February? Nah, no chance. Yet you group everyone into the same 'brigade', like there's some sort of conspiracy which makes this poll nearly 50/50 and everyone turning against Martinez are not doing so because of the terrible tactics, stupid team selections and verbal diarrhoea in the media, but because of some people on the internet 'kneejerking' and collectively plotting his downfall amongst themselves. That's ridiculous!
 

Tubey said:
That's not an answer - that's basically saying, "yes, I understand what everyone is saying about Martinez - but I don't really give a toss personally."

That's fine, that's your view. But you're calling people kneejerkers - yet we're approaching March with six wins in twenty-six games; when does criticising one of the worst Premier League performances in our history (given prior performance and squad quality) stop being 'kneejerk'
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I think kneejerk is the wrong word at this point (though there has been plenty of kneejerk).

Impatient is a little better, but still not right.

My question to the OUT crowd - Who do we get in to improve us, how much money do they get, how much time before we sack them if they don't right the ship straight from the off? Do we expect sacking Martinez to be something that pays immediate dividends as well works long term?

From my perspective, teams have a couple of paths to success:
1) Money
2) Luck
3) Continuity

We don't have any of 1 or 2. We have to try for 3. Moyes stayed too long in the end, but the expectations of Everton being a regular top half club come not from managerial brilliance, but from the fact Moyes was given time to build the squad and club in his image, to his style and to maximize his potential given Everton's constraints.

Martinez is not a proven commodity, but Everton cannot afford to go bring in a proven commodity. So any firing of Martinez is rolling the dice and setting the clock back on possible success. There is obviously a point in which we throw in the towel and say this was a disaster, but I question the speed at which some people are willing to do so.
 
davek said:
That was a positive feature, yes. But we almost exclusively had our 'ground game' based on that one trick pony until Coleman was used on the other flank. Then the dullard Moyes started dropping Coleman after any mistake made.

He was a mediocre manager who relied on graft even we had the players who could achieve much much more...as Martinez showed him last season.
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We went from 6th to 5th after signing our best striker in donkey's years. I don't think that is 'achieving much much more' in all honesty.

That's not to say last season wasn't very good mind.
 
nsno-chris said:
No I never. I've proved this on numerous occasions now, all of which you seem not to acknowledge.

And I more entitled to an opinion than you my dear blindsided friend. I pay towards his wages, so yes I do.

Its you who has no credibility in this argument, watching MOTD or Sky Game of the Day and then spouting about this amazing football that we are not playing. Blaming Jags, Disting, Howard, Osman Pienaar...in fact anyone even linked to Moyes you hate, i mean you really hate like a twisted old man. You're quite a strange cat
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chris, you're like someone caught up in razor wire: the more you struggle the worse it gets.

You were arguing against his appointment when it was first proposed in the summer the ginger Judas ran off. You are utterly bankrupt on all things Martinez related. You just are. Maybe you should just nominate one of the other plotters to say your piece for you? That way you get your point across but cant be pulled up for your lack of objectivity?

Just trying to think laterally here to help out.
 

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