IMPROVEMENT NEEDED

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Rook said:
Get rid of Howard??? I'll admit that his penalty saving wasn't very good last year however only Brad Friedel and David James were better keepers last year (I guess you could make the arguement for Kirkland too). Cech has dropped off, Reina can only save penalties, VanDerSar is over the hill and just gets bailed out by his defence.

There are probably only about 10-12 keepers in the world who are better keepers than Howard.
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You have got to be joking. There are at least 5 in the prem
 

I dont know what it is with Howard, he'd had a superb season yet some dont like him. It would be hard for us to get a better, more consistent keeper at the moment.

See: Gordon, Craig.
 
Neiler said:
So in all those arguments hes flawed but nobody wants to drop ten million for a replacement! Certainly signing a keeper isnt as exciting as the thought of signing the riquimes and Joaquans of this world.

I didnt suggest hes [Poor language removed] i said there are kepers out there of better quality and the consensus seems to agree, and also many of the arguments have pointed out that their a defo flawes in his game.

So the majority are happy having howard, as am i, my point is that i think there are a lot of better keepers then him. Chelsea had Cudinicini who was good but still signed Cech because hes better. My origianl point was that if we had unlimited funds the keeper position was one i wouldnt mind us strengthing.

Zero if you can give me a breakdown of each of the keepers games ill begin to beleive that you have consistently watched each play, instead of just assuming that there not of a better quality then howard.
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Name me a keeper that you could get for 10million that isn't flawed. The Casillas and Buffon's class keepers would set us back 20 million at least. They're the only keepers that I would say don't have any flaws to there game.

You put him in the same boat as Neville and Hibbo but your not calling him [Poor language removed] I'm really struggling to understand that one. I'd easily rate Howard as important to us as Lescott is. You look at the player of the season candidates and howard was in the top three he didn't get there by having a [Poor language removed] season.

I don't know what you want me to say by giving you a breakdown of other keepers' games but the keepers that you mentioned like Boruc, McGregor, Ochoa etc. all have one thing in common. They've never been tested at the highest level of football, like chico said Craig Gordon played well enough in Scotland and for the national side to make sunderland bid 10m for his services.

I feel that Howard's position as Goalkeeper safe some decent competition for him wouldn't go a miss to keep him on his toes. I'm not doing a breakdown of all the keepers in the premiership's games but the majority of them bar Cech and Van Der Saar are not noticeably better then Howard. Infact I'd go as far to say past those two there isn't a better 'Shot stopper' in the league.
 

Edwin Van Der Sar - About on par with Howard but MUCH older!
Peter Chec - Better the Howard (Better then anyone in the Premier League!)
Jen Lehmann - [Poor language removed]
Reina - Inconsistant... i'd rather have Howard
Scott Carson - Not as good as Howard... younger but not better
Brad Friedel - A really good keeper. Better then Howard... But MUCH older
David James - Had a great season but still suffers from a rush of blood to the head. On par with Howard... But Much older!
Joe Hart - A very good prospect but nowhere near as good as Howard... yet.
Robert Green - Good shot stopper (on par with Howard), overall Howard just wins this one though.
Paul Robinson - LOL! Pile of [Poor language removed]
Mark Schwarzer - Past it
Chris Kirkland - Not as good as we thought he'd be. Not as good as Howard.
Craig Gordon - Looked out of his depth in the EPL, not as good as Howard
Jussi Jaskalinen - Good but not as good as Howard and older
Kasey Keller - Pile of wank
Marcus Hannaman - Pretty rubbish
Maik Taylor - Rubbish
Roy Carol - Awful!


Ok so theres a few spelling mistakes in there as not sure hwo to spell certain names but from this I can gather there are 2 keepers better the Howard in the Premier League - Chec & Freidel. One is much older the Howard and therefore will fade away in the next couple of seasons or so. 2 who are on par with Howard - Van Der Sar & James... both are much older so again i'd rather not have either of these over our man. There's probably only Joe Hart who has the potential to be better then Howard but he's not at the same standard as our man yet and may not be for a few years.

If I had to swap Howard with a keeper from the premier league i'd choose Chec... obviously this would never happen, so out of the rest of the bunch, taking in to consideration age, experience, value for money, I think we have the best we can hope for. I'm really struggling to see these 5 better keepers mentioned by someone here. I'm presuming that person meant Van Der Sar, Chec, James and Friedel, but they are all much older and only have a couple of seasons left in them.
 
zero said:
Name me a keeper that you could get for 10million that isn't flawed. The Casillas and Buffon's class keepers would set us back 20 million at least. They're the only keepers that I would say don't have any flaws to there game.

Well that was my point really, i found it ironic that he was calling for lots of money to be spent as i was of the opinion that if we had say 60mill to spend i wouldnt mind spending it on strengthing the keep position.

You put him in the same boat as Neville and Hibbo but your not calling him [Poor language removed] I'm really struggling to understand that one. I'd easily rate Howard as important to us as Lescott is. You look at the player of the season candidates and howard was in the top three he didn't get there by having a [Poor language removed] season.

Well tahts simple i dont think Hibbert and Neville are [Poor language removed] just average, as i would say Howard is.

I don't know what you want me to say by giving you a breakdown of other keepers' games but the keepers that you mentioned like Boruc, McGregor, Ochoa etc. all have one thing in common. They've never been tested at the highest level of football, like chico said Craig Gordon played well enough in Scotland and for the national side to make sunderland bid 10m for his services.

Well Boruc has played in world cups, and will play in the YoYo's while also notibaly keeping clean sheets against the Barcelona's and Milans int he champions leauge, McGregor is still quite young, but has already played internationaly and has played in a top European final performing well. Well i let you do your own research on Ochoa, i thnk you will be impressed. I like the way you ommited Frey and Kameni from that list.

I feel that Howard's position as Goalkeeper safe some decent competition for him wouldn't go a miss to keep him on his toes. I'm not doing a breakdown of all the keepers in the premiership's games but the majority of them bar Cech and Van Der Saar are not noticeably better then Howard. Infact I'd go as far to say past those two there isn't a better 'Shot stopper' in the league.
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Again no one is saying get rid of Howard or hes [Poor language removed], i just feel if we had money to drop i think their may be a better standard of keeper we could have. Again i am thinking of it along the lines of since big Nige retired do i feel the keeping situation is better or worse! Its all about opinion but i dont think hes as good a keeper as big Nige.
 
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Neiler said:
Again no one is saying get rid of Howard or hes [Poor language removed], i just feel if we had money to drop i think their may be a better standard of keeper we could have. Again i am thinking of it along the lines of since big Nige retired do i feel the keeping situation is better or worse! Its all about opinion but i dont think hes as good a keeper as big Nige.
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Your selling him short by calling him average though, His ability for his position is far greater then Nev's and Hibbo's for their respective positions. Howard is a top keeper and for our current position of UEFA cup football and best of the rest there is nobody I'd rather have in our nets then Tim Howard obviously excluding Cech.

Infact Tim Howard would not look out of place in a champions league side.
 
Ok.......we get it. Lets put this to bed now, some really like him some dont. It's all about opinions. Their's no way moyes will replace him this summer. As he's been great for us.

But all players are expendeble. If you can bring better in, You do so. It's called progression. An if we want to be the best again thats what we need.
 
zero said:
Your selling him short by calling him average though, His ability for his position is far greater then Nev's and Hibbo's for their respective positions. Howard is a top keeper and for our current position of UEFA cup football and best of the rest there is nobody I'd rather have in our nets then Tim Howard obviously excluding Cech.

Infact Tim Howard would not look out of place in a champions league side.[/quote]

Alex Ferguson thought so mate.

Howards a decent keeper and has rarely let us down so your right in a certain sense. There is no burning need or even a desire to replace him. Its all about opinions and we dont agree on this i dont think he would get into many Champions Leauge teams in Italy, England, Spain or Germany which should be our aspiration, i am well aware that i maybe wrong as i have been in the past, and my opinion is more of an attempt of a hnest critiuqe rather then criticim.

He is a good player in where we are as a club at present, but i think if we had serious money to drop on the squad, and we were looking at a step up, i personally wouldnt be broken hearted if we signed another keepr. I dont think its going to happen and my opinion is just a hyphotethical one. I would liken the sitution to the Cudicnhi and Cech scnerio at Chelsea.

Im well aware that i may be wrong as i have been about a few players
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zero said:
Name them... I'm struggling to go past 3.
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In no particular order:-

Cech - Although not his greatest season last yr, still a much better keeper
VDS - Best in the Prem
Reina - Makes very few mistakes and consistently at top of his game
Jaaskelainen - Consistenly pulls off great saves
James - 2nd only to VDS last season, been superb

Thats without really thinking about it, if i thought about the others am sure i can come up with more
 
If the rumours going around last week are true about Moyes going for Wayne Hennesey from wolves then i don't think he would be paying 5m for a reserve keeper do you. Maybe just the papers starting a rumour but we can't spend that kind of money on an understudy so if he really is interested then that says to me that DM doesn't think Howard is the keeper to take us on to the next level
 
Next...

Ok, now that we've beaten up the #1 spot lets look at a couple of other spots where we can improve. I distinctly heard a reference to getting someone special, in the mid field. Someone who can impose their will on the game. We also know for a fact that we need a Lee Carsley, a new and improved Lee Carsley 2.0. Can Bradley fit that bill?

If you thought the Howard 'opinion' ruffled some feathers here's another one for you. Mr Arteta himself no less. I know he is such a huge fan favorite but I am going to suggest that even he is not 'special'. I have always felt that while he is technically solid with the ball at speed his service is inconsistent and he is nothing special on set pieces. When was the last time he put one straight into the back of the net from a free kick? I recognize that we are one of these teams that is 'dangerous' on set pieces but it tends not to be from threat of a well struck ball. So I'm not suggesting he is [Poor language removed] or needs to go but I do want to point out that he is not all that ether.

I happen to think Fernandes could be 'special' but until he is it is just 'potential'. Heck, Arteta also could be special too but I haven't seen it yet. Certainly I think most people in here would agree that splashing out for a world class midfielder is where we are going with this so clearly one of our existing midfielder's is going to become a squad player. I now left wingers are popular to think about but I felt Stevie P did a fine job and should some creativity and ability to link up with the forwards.

It's always popular to dream about signing a big striker but in our case we already did that and the problem is more in the linkage from the midfield more so than our strikers ability. Having said that I feel another fan favorite, in Johnson, is not getting it done either. Maybe it was just a bad year (and half of the season before as well) but we need someone bigger wit more ability to create up here. I like Anichebe combined with Yak but we'll need some depth as well.

The other thing that struck me quite profoundly this season was the importance of Tim Cahill to this team and just how unreliable he was from an injury standpoint. Those stress fracture things never seem to go away do they. When healthy though he exploded onto the scene scoring in seemingly every outing for a bit.

So, imo, we need a healthy Cahill, Carsley 2.0 and someone special in the midfield who can help us get out of our end and into the attacking 3rd against top clubs.
 
Call me crazy but everytime I saw Ryan Babel take the pitch, he was a threat.

Two strides and he was past his marker and it wasn't like he was a speed merchant. Just deceptively quick. Had a good shot on him too.

I wouldn't mind him crossing the park to play for us but Rafael would be stupid to let him go.

It just blew my mind though how often he wasn't used last year.
 
TX Bill said:
Call me crazy but everytime I saw Ryan Babel take the pitch, he was a threat.

Two strides and he was past his marker and it wasn't like he was a speed merchant. Just deceptively quick. Had a good shot on him too.

I wouldn't mind him crossing the park to play for us but Rafael would be stupid to let him go.

It just blew my mind though how often he wasn't used last year.
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would you play him striker or midfield?
 

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