Do we bottle the big games ?

[Allezfan]

leaving that aside, if you look back over the last 20 years, we've been in three FA Cup semis and two finals. We were very much the underdogs in 4 of those games, the last one the chances were more even. We got three wins and two defeats. Not bad for a team that "bottles" the big games.

Royle's team weren't bottlers. Moyes' team is. Don't conflate the two.

Royle was a better manager.

 

[Chang Elephant]

Don't give a flying one if we bottle it as long as we make the main point to all our players:

Never Be Late For Training

Some things are more important than winning

 

[GrandOldTeam]

Possessing the arrogance and self belief to not only believe to win the big games, but expect to win isn't innate.

Some clubs have that in abundance, it's in their culture - some don't.

 

[kenada_blue]

That's all it is with him sometimes, their presence as a whole scares us. Look at Pienaar, been sensational, 9/10 performances since he's come back. He was awful at Anfield

Its all mentality. Its like when everyone says this United side is poor and the Citeh side is THE better side with better players...maybe true, but United have the mentality to win and is why they clawed back a 8 point lead or whatever to be back on top (may go tits up on Monday though).

Same with Barca now. 2 seasons ago, everyone was **** scared on them. Now they look like they can be beaten and are not invincible. Once you break that mental hold, you turn up.

We've done that with Chelsea over the years. Since the FA Cup final we've only lost once to them I think - and beaten them more times.

 

[Cena]

Possessing the arrogance and self belief to not only believe to win the big games, but expect to win isn't innate.

Some clubs have that in abundance, it's in their culture - some don't.

This is exactly it - it's not in our culture!

 

[Cena]

Its all mentality. Its like when everyone says this United side is poor and the Citeh side is THE better side with better players...maybe true, but United have the mentality to win and is why they clawed back a 8 point lead or whatever to be back on top (may go tits up on Monday though).

Same with Barca now. 2 seasons ago, everyone was **** scared on them. Now they look like they can be beaten and are not invincible. Once you break that mental hold, you turn up.

We've done that with Chelsea over the years. Since the FA Cup final we've only lost once to them I think - and beaten them more times.

Top post.

With Liverpool though you can see the mentality, they play not to lose, rather than trying to win, the fear of losing is so apparent

 

[toffeejack]

The only major game we've won is the semi against Man U and we weren't exactly dominant in that game. If the Ref had spotted the blatant penalty we gave away we would have lost 1-0 and had few complaints.

Otherwise look at Villareal, look at Steaua, look at the Chelsea semis where we were playing against ten men and let in a goal, look at the way our entire season collapsed after Fiorentina when 4th was there for the taking, look at the final after Saha's goal and look at every single time we've played Liverpool.

And yes I would count the defeat against Reading as a bottlejob, too. There was a lot of expectation on us after the Chelsea game and we justs didn't live up to it.

It's not that we're not good enough, it's that we only perform when it doesn't matter. hence why we always start the season so bad as to make our better form in spring irrelivent. And it's because we're a team who is cowardly and scared and that's because we have a manager who is cowardly and scared.

spot to the on, good post

 

[Toffe3m4n]

Your comment about the bears made me smile, but look, you're twisting the facts to fit your anti-Moyes agenda, and it doesn't wash with me. So the semi against Liverpool counts but not the semi against Man United ? And you're ignoring the fact that the two cup ties we lost against Chelsea were when they were just about the best team in the land ?

And then you bring in the thing about derby matches, as if that's some kind of ultimate test of the manager (so all the games we've won against Manchester City and other top teams mean nothing in your eyes ?). But even in derby matches, the evidence is far from as damning as you suggest. Last season we had a 2-0 win and a 2-2 draw. This season, the defeat at Goodison was blamed by everybody on the Rodwell red card, and the defeat at Anfield can't be discussed without talking about Moyes's decision to rest key players. Every defeat against them hurts, and I understand the need to criticise some of Moyes's decisions, but I see no reason why we can't go out and beat them next season.

Brilliantly said.

Think Dave cares too much about our form against our neighbors if I'm being honest.

 

[tadpole]

The most enduring memories of the Moyes era will include those painful defeats to Chelsea in 2009 and the dark side in 2012. Was it attitude that Moyes's teams lacked, or just a bit of extra quality ? Whatever the answer, a win against the Arse would do more than anything to dispel doubts that Everton have opened the door on a new era. A win against a top team when it really matters. Our first win against Arsenal home or away for 7 years. Can we do it ? Even though recent results have taken a bit of the shine off our season we can still feel optimistic. We're playing with more style and more swagger than we have for years, the team still has great belief, and they're good enough to win.

So as long as the ref's not a red ... oh damn ...

 

[bicycleheader]

Kenwright bottles them and sells them to buy lawnmowers and kones

 

[tim cahill]

The most enduring memories of the Moyes era will include those painful defeats to Chelsea in 2009 and the dark side in 2012. Was it attitude that Moyes's teams lacked, or just a bit of extra quality ? Whatever the answer, a win against the Arse would do more than anything to dispel doubts that Everton have opened the door on a new era. A win against a top team when it really matters. Our first win against Arsenal home or away for 7 years. Can we do it ? Even though recent results have taken a bit of the shine off our season we can still feel optimistic. We're playing with more style and more swagger than we have for years, the team still has great belief, and they're good enough to win.

So as long as the ref's not a red ... oh damn ...

I'm starting to feel quite confident about this one. Arsenal are on the ropes at the moment and they would not have wanted to play us. Their midfield injuries give us a big advantage. We will boss the possession again, let's just hope we have the cutting edge!

 

[Minimeister]

We seem to lack that killer touch. That know how that gets you over the line. Even in the league the last two years against Spurs away which have been must wins for top 4, we haven't. Despite the fact we were the better team and showed the quality to have won the games. The worse thing about the derby semi final was going into that game and the derby match prior, we were in great form and they weren't. So you've got to ask how we managed to lose both games.

 

[nigelcoyb]

I never feel confident about Everton in any game (over 50 yrs following).

Probably the last game we genuinely stepped up to the plate and played like Liverpool do so often (ie taking the game by the scruff regardless of the opposition) was against Spurs at Elland Rd with Amokachi which might explain why.

Unquestionably the Moyes years plumbed the depths re choking but I really don't think the lingering whiff of pant soiling will go till we actually win something.

C'mon Roberto give us that miracle.

 

[Dario Terracotta]

Lets hope we can put this thread to bed after tomorrow and the rest of the campaign!!!

 

[alan ball]