zed
Player Valuation: £25m
true. so who is at fault with our mentality going into important games. dont forget the birmingham fa cup match at home too, we shouldve been in the quarters and we shat it to a bunch of no-marks
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davek
Player Valuation: £150m
I dont have an anti-Moyes agenda. I've been pro-Moyes for the bulk of the time he's been here. I base my judgement on the experience of his ten years in charge. On that basis you can only arrive at one conclusion: we wont win anything while he's still here. That's because - in the absence of major financial backing that puts you on a par with the CL challenging teams in the PL - you have to take chances and grab a game that really matters by the scruff of the neck and never let up. He's had them doing that against City and Spurs a few times...but they are NOT big games. They're league matches where we're not supposed to get anything and usually dont mean that much to us because we finish where we finish in the league anyway. The pressure is off. The win in the SF against United was a poor display by us against a scratch United team and we only managed to do that on pens. Not really a commanding, non-bottling performance. As for the Derby record: yes, it is a very big test and one that Moyes has failed on all but a handfull of occasions. It's a shambles. I know he and some others would like to downgrade that fixture out of convenience but it really wont wash - it's massive. He's been a chronic Derby manager and it'll haunt him until he either leaves or starts putting it right.
RFUS
Anustart
Not when it matters.
Lost the FA Cup final to a 'topish' team.
Lost the FA Cup semi to a 'topish' team.
Lost the Carling cup semi to a 'topish' team.
Knocked out of Europe every time we faced a 'topish' team.
It's okay beating these teams when all we're battling for is the 7th place trophy, but when it matters -- in the BIG games -- we bottle it. Badly.
dholliday
deconstructed rep
I dont think we necesarily bottle it mate, i think we lack the quality to be honest.
RFUS
Anustart
Are you saying we lost the recent semi because of a lack of quality?
Andy Carroll scored the winner.
Andy Carroll.
deliverance
Player Valuation: £500k
Unquestionably we are bottle jobs but not because we're sh1thouses, if we played Liverpool tomorrow we all know what would happen.
Moyes struggles against any team that goes toe to toe, we are the ultimate "grinders" effective at getting top of mid table but flawed through a lack of pace and creativity it's always been his achilles.
Only Donovan has worked - would it be the same if exposed to the Moyes pjilosophy for a full season?
Drenthe may well have been a tw@t but when he scored a blinder a few months ago and pointedly ran past Moyes to celebrate with the bench I knew he was toast.
Whatever the reason Moyes and flair are mortal enemies and you just can't win the biggest games without it.
People say we sit back - we don't - we get overrun.
Moyes struggles against any team that goes toe to toe, we are the ultimate "grinders" effective at getting top of mid table but flawed through a lack of pace and creativity it's always been his achilles.
Only Donovan has worked - would it be the same if exposed to the Moyes pjilosophy for a full season?
Drenthe may well have been a tw@t but when he scored a blinder a few months ago and pointedly ran past Moyes to celebrate with the bench I knew he was toast.
Whatever the reason Moyes and flair are mortal enemies and you just can't win the biggest games without it.
People say we sit back - we don't - we get overrun.
Cena
Player Valuation: £70m
I think we lack the stomach to do it when it matters as in the games that people mentioned.
The thing with us, is that, we are great, one of the best, at getting a team at Goodison, a top team, and taking them down a peg or 2, being a tough team, getting in their face and getting a result, a victories against United, Chelsea, City etc have proved. We are fantastic at that.
What we lack is the ability to stick it through, not just in the one off games. For all Liverpool have been terrible this season, they have a trophy and possibly another one this season, they see the target through. Like they did in Champions League past.
Maybe its the consistency I don't know, but it seems when there is a prize to be gained, we don't see it through, you may throw 2005 at me, but we didn't see that through, because we didn't reach the group stages in 2006.
We don't go through league seasons being strong all the way through, we turn it on always in the 2nd half of the season - sometimes that hasn't been Moyes' fault, but i think this season, we could of started and played some games a lot, lot better.
As for our record in derbies, well they speak for themselves, i'd sooner be a league place or 2 lower this year and not suffered 2 league defeats to them. I'd also rather be in 17th now and have beaten them in the semi.
The thing with us, is that, we are great, one of the best, at getting a team at Goodison, a top team, and taking them down a peg or 2, being a tough team, getting in their face and getting a result, a victories against United, Chelsea, City etc have proved. We are fantastic at that.
What we lack is the ability to stick it through, not just in the one off games. For all Liverpool have been terrible this season, they have a trophy and possibly another one this season, they see the target through. Like they did in Champions League past.
Maybe its the consistency I don't know, but it seems when there is a prize to be gained, we don't see it through, you may throw 2005 at me, but we didn't see that through, because we didn't reach the group stages in 2006.
We don't go through league seasons being strong all the way through, we turn it on always in the 2nd half of the season - sometimes that hasn't been Moyes' fault, but i think this season, we could of started and played some games a lot, lot better.
As for our record in derbies, well they speak for themselves, i'd sooner be a league place or 2 lower this year and not suffered 2 league defeats to them. I'd also rather be in 17th now and have beaten them in the semi.
The only major game we've won is the semi against Man U and we weren't exactly dominant in that game. If the Ref had spotted the blatant penalty we gave away we would have lost 1-0 and had few complaints.
Otherwise look at Villareal, look at Steaua, look at the Chelsea semis where we were playing against ten men and let in a goal, look at the way our entire season collapsed after Fiorentina when 4th was there for the taking, look at the final after Saha's goal and look at every single time we've played Liverpool.
And yes I would count the defeat against Reading as a bottlejob, too. There was a lot of expectation on us after the Chelsea game and we justs didn't live up to it.
It's not that we're not good enough, it's that we only perform when it doesn't matter. hence why we always start the season so bad as to make our better form in spring irrelivent. And it's because we're a team who is cowardly and scared and that's because we have a manager who is cowardly and scared.
Otherwise look at Villareal, look at Steaua, look at the Chelsea semis where we were playing against ten men and let in a goal, look at the way our entire season collapsed after Fiorentina when 4th was there for the taking, look at the final after Saha's goal and look at every single time we've played Liverpool.
And yes I would count the defeat against Reading as a bottlejob, too. There was a lot of expectation on us after the Chelsea game and we justs didn't live up to it.
It's not that we're not good enough, it's that we only perform when it doesn't matter. hence why we always start the season so bad as to make our better form in spring irrelivent. And it's because we're a team who is cowardly and scared and that's because we have a manager who is cowardly and scared.
Roztitute
Player Valuation: £60m
kenada_blue
Welcome to Barcelonaton FC
1st March 2008.
1 Arsenal 65
2 Manchester United 64
3 Chelsea 58
4 Everton 50
5 Aston Villa 48
6 Liverpool 47
Since then we lost to Fulham, drew to West Ham, lost to the RS, drew with Brum...dont think we won too many games until the last day of the season, but the RS ran past us by then
Probably down to squad depth etc. But there's examples of just even leapfrogging teams in the league by winning a Bolton or Wigan at home and we usually balls it up.
kenada_blue
Welcome to Barcelonaton FC
Gerrard was gash that day. But is presence scared us.
It's what they call winning mentality. We don't have it. It's why Chelsea and Utd win loads of stuff and us and Arsenal don't anymore.
It's also something the RS have in spades, hard as it is to admit it.
Cena
Player Valuation: £70m
That's all it is with him sometimes, their presence as a whole scares us. Look at Pienaar, been sensational, 9/10 performances since he's come back. He was awful at Anfield
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