Youngsters/Not Good Enough/Not Gonna Make it etc

[steken1]

i know what your saying, but wallace has pretty much single handed got tranmere to top of league one, hes been made skipper at 21, and completely runs that team, right now he is a better cm than neville if you ask me, a big shout for a league 1 player against a 50 odd cap title winner, but i know who i would pick, he picks a pass, always wants the ball, isnt the risk taker that barkley is but still plays with his head up looking to get forward. I really think he is gonna be one that got away

Couldn't disagree with that. The limited amounts I've seen of him he's always looked a player.

I believe the cream always rises and that's why I don't go hyper-critical of Moyes, even though I believe he does them more harm than good at times(see bringing Barkley back for no reason at all) because no outfield player has ever come back to prove his judgement wrong in over a decade. Even Wenger and Ferguson have let a few go that have gone on to make good players.

It also leads you into the question of whether our academy is producing the type of players our club needs as most seem to end up in league 1&2.

BTW, the situation with Duffy bothers me more than Ross as he's at an age where he should deffo be playing football week in, week out.

 

[Rook]

The problem with young players is that when they tend to have bad games, they have really really bad games (see: ALWNV). Given that we're probably going to end up in the Europa league where the competetion is decent but the stakes in the group stages are non-existant they'll get plenty of PT next year. Plus Fellani is probably gone, and maybe Heitenga will be too so spaces will open up sooner than you think.

 

[Bruce Wayne]

It also leads you into the question of whether our academy is producing the type of players our club needs as most seem to end up in league 1&2.

You could argue that is the case for the league as a whole. I mean how many British players have come through a PL side in the past decade that you'd class as truly world class?

 

[davids]

If Moyes starts too many youth players it plays right into Kenwright and the boards hands.

 

[Rook]

You could argue that is the case for the league as a whole. I mean how many British players have come through a PL side in the past decade that you'd class as truly world class?

Boro has a fine academy and it may get them a playoff spot. Not sure that's where I want to be though.

 

[Allezfan]

The problem with young players is that when they tend to have bad games, they have really really bad games (see: ALWNV).

I've been staring at those initials for about ten minutes. No clue.

 

[steken1]

You could argue that is the case for the league as a whole. I mean how many British players have come through a PL side in the past decade that you'd class as truly world class?

Very, very few in all honesty. Perhaps only Wilshere who you'd say could walk into any side.

Is that the academies or our obsession, and reliance due to cost, with foreign players.

I thought Arsenal fielding a side devoid of english/british players would be a tipping point. Instead everybody followed thier lead.

 

[Rook]

I've been staring at those initials for about ten minutes. No clue.

At Least We're Not Villa

 

[Walken]

Couldn't disagree with that. The limited amounts I've seen of him he's always looked a player.

I believe the cream always rises and that's why I don't go hyper-critical of Moyes, even though I believe he does them more harm than good at times(see bringing Barkley back for no reason at all) because no outfield player has ever come back to prove his judgement wrong in over a decade. Even Wenger and Ferguson have let a few go that have gone on to make good players.

It also leads you into the question of whether our academy is producing the type of players our club needs as most seem to end up in league 1&2.

BTW, the situation with Duffy bothers me more than Ross as he's at an age where he should deffo be playing football week in, week out.

It does seem a waste of the progress Duffy made last season, where he looked like he could cope in the prem, so why not give him six months in the championship, make it a rolling one month loan an we can call him back if needs must.

 

[Walken]

Don't you think we'd be able to get him back if he goes on to prove himself further next year? He's a blue, and seems levelheaded from twitter, think he'd jump at the chance to come back and can appreciate in what position the club was that they had to let him go.

I wonder why we don't have more of a loan-out situation with Tranmere. They've been in a bad place, and I'm sure players like Vellios, Duffy etc would do a good job there. Barkley needs time in one of the better teams of the Championship or Premier League. I'd think the others can get competetive games at League 1 level as well.

I've thought the same thing, you would think it would be a mutually beneficial arrangement.

 

[Little Ralphy]

I wonder why we don't have more of a loan-out situation with Tranmere. They've been in a bad place, and I'm sure players like Vellios, Duffy etc would do a good job there. Barkley needs time in one of the better teams of the Championship or Premier League. I'd think the others can get competetive games at League 1 level as well.

I've often though this, especially since they seem to loan so many players. I can only think that it's a finance thing, perhaps Everton are asking for more money than Tranmere can afford.

Ronnie Moore was on the radio back in the Summer saying he was looking for loan players but he was finding that some bigger clubs had players with next to no first team experience on massive wages. I think he said something like, with some deals Tranmere will pay a nominal wage about £500 if the player plays for their first team, but if he doesn’t get a game then Tranmere have to pay their full wage, which is more than Tranmere can afford. That’s the stipulation that the big clubs put on loan deals with their players to ensure they play regular football. You can understand that from both sides I guess, if Tranmere loan a player who turns out to be not up to scratch then they’d be stuck playing him or paying more than they can afford to have him sit on the bench. There must be a way around it though, U21 football does nothing for a player’s development, it’s better for most players to be playing regular football lower down the leagues to gain first team experience where results matter.

 

[Bruce Wayne]

Boro has a fine academy and it may get them a playoff spot. Not sure that's where I want to be though.

Boro have produced some young players, but it'd be a real stretch to class Downing and Johnson as world class.

 

[bflefc]

You could argue that is the case for the league as a whole. I mean how many British players have come through a PL side in the past decade that you'd class as truly world class?

But we don't necessarily have to have them as world class (as the majority of the current batch of 1st teamers are anything but), more that they just need to be able to put a decent shift in at Premier League level.

 

[Bruce Wayne]

Very, very few in all honesty. Perhaps only Wilshere who you'd say could walk into any side.

Is that the academies or our obsession, and reliance due to cost, with foreign players.

I thought Arsenal fielding a side devoid of english/british players would be a tipping point. Instead everybody followed thier lead.

Even with Wilshere, he's a lad with just over 50 top flight games, yet he's massively hyped up. He might go on to be a great, but he hasn't had an impact on the biggest stage yet, which is something Rooney had done.

Seems more a reflection on the paucity of talent available than anything else. I mean we have guys like Wellbeck being lauded, yet he has 1 goal in 22 games this season. It's a record that Heskey would blush at.

The Sky hype machine has a lot to answer for. You'd think the Golden Generation nonsense would have taught us a lesson, yet we continue to hype up kids as the next big thing. I mean if you listened to some Rodwell was the next Beckenbaur.

 

[Bruce Wayne]

But we don't necessarily have to have them as world class (as the majority of the current batch of 1st teamers are anything but), more that they just need to be able to put a decent shift in at Premier League level.

To improve our squad they have to be international quality at least (which given the standard of the England team isn't asking that much). Over the last decade we've generated Rooney that fits that bill. No one else (I'm not counting one cap wonders like Jeffers, Osman and Rodwell). It's not a great record is it and given our squad during that time has been neither exceptionally good or at all deep you can't really argue that a lack of opportunities is the reason.