Would you rather...

[banno]

Not really.

My disagreement comes down to two points.

1) You seem to think that keeping in the top 8, attracts and keeps top players. I've always felt that the fact that we're a club who isn't competeing for trophies, isn't in the cl and can't pay top wages or fees has hindered us in that respect. We couldn't keep rooney or even rodwell. Mirallas and Fellaini seem the perfect example of this. In that they were players in smaller league who we took a chance on (our appeal is that we're playing in a big league and so can offer mroe money and exposure than belgium or greece) and then will sell once a big boy wants them. The fact that we're top 10 might make a difference but the likes of ba and fer and sessegnon and valencia who end up at even bad prem teams points to me that the prem is the attraction not the top 5.

I mean we've been selling a star every other year under kenwright and buying prospects more than anything else.

2) Your argument is that finishing top 5 provides you the resources to finish top 5 which provides you the resources to finish top 5. Which like what's the point? What do you gain by that? Football is about winning trophies, if you don't do that why bother?

Spot on. Trophy = success and I think everyone old enough knows the emotion and joy of winning a trophy. Gotta say I wasn't that emotional finishing 5th. Got more satisfaction winning the cup semi against Utd than finshing 5th and like you say 5th is not a proven springboard.

A cup win would lift this club and its fans

 

[hktoffee]

Not really.

My disagreement comes down to two points.

1) You seem to think that keeping in the top 8, attracts and keeps top players. I've always felt that the fact that we're a club who isn't competeing for trophies, isn't in the cl and can't pay top wages or fees has hindered us in that respect. We couldn't keep rooney or even rodwell. Mirallas and Fellaini seem the perfect example of this. In that they were players in smaller league who we took a chance on (our appeal is that we're playing in a big league and so can offer mroe money and exposure than belgium or greece) and then will sell once a big boy wants them. The fact that we're top 10 might make a difference but the likes of ba and fer and sessegnon and valencia who end up at even bad prem teams points to me that the prem is the attraction not the top 5.

I mean we've been selling a star every other year under kenwright and buying prospects more than anything else.

2) Your argument is that finishing top 5 provides you the resources to finish top 5 which provides you the resources to finish top 5. Which like what's the point? What do you gain by that? Football is about winning trophies, if you don't do that why bother?

Fair enough, we just see things differently.

1. First thing first I do not rate Rodwell at all. What a deal to sell him for £12m. And Rooney, yes we all know why, just ask Kenwright. Going back to the topic, I do think keeping in the top 6/7 will enable us to keep hold of our current coup of good/top players such as Mirallas, Lukaku and Barkley. A Europa spot also enhance our chance to sign international players. With the new tv money deal, I hope we can progress because now the manager does not have to sell to buy. As long as Kenwright is in charge, the reality is that we just won't competeing for trophies (except the F.A and the Mickey Mouse Cup), isn't in the CL and can't pay top wages or fees. Winning a local cup and finishing 17th won't make much of a change. Getting 4th and CL is what we want to achieve.

2. I agree with you. We have been selling a star every other year under Kenwright and buying prospects more than anything else but that is under the years of Moyes. Will Martinez be able to do the same? Jury still out. My argument is that finishing top 5 provides you the resources to finish top 5 and with the new tv money coming in, we sign better players to replace the deadwoods hoping we break into top 4 (CL place) and perhaps a cup. My argument is that while winning a cup is great, there is no concession for not doing well in the league because for me it is always the priority.

 

[Ollie d]

Aside from playing football manager and calculating prize money for league position, surely as fans we want to celebrate success?Cup win every time .

 

[catcherintherye]

Finishing 5th is irrelevant by in large. I think if you offered us finishing 4th of FA Cup you have a really interesting debate,

 

[Azzurri]

A few people saying finishing 5th attracts better players. Do you not want better players so you've got more chance of winning trophies, though? How many people regularly see pictures/videos from the year we finished 4th like we do with the FA Cup win in '95.

And for people moaning about this being a 'stupid' thread or whatever, it's just a hypothetical question to see how much value people place on league position compared to trophy winning. If you'd rather a mass suicide thread was started over how cack we are then go for it. Also, yer mar.

 

[4737carlin]

Finishing 5th is irrelevant by in large. I think if you offered us finishing 4th of FA Cup you have a really interesting debate,

Coming 5th is nothing but failure, same with 4th, been there and done that and it was worth nowt, the following season was almost as bad as the way this one is heading, in fact in the first week of Jan the following season, we were on 21 points!!