Would you be happy if Moyes left?

[sheeds]

Blackburn and Bolton are the warning signs. Stable midtable clubs without a lot of money who challenged for europe and then appointed the wrong guys, had one bad season too many and ended up in the crap.

But with respect we're not bolton or blackburn and otoh there's wigan who are a tiny club who have just managed to do enough to stay in the league.

Our level financially is about 10th to 15th, our level in footballing terms based on our squad is 4th-7th. It would have to be a really bad manager who'd take this team into a relegation fight and a relatively bad manager to take our club there.

Any manager who's even average in terms of top flight managers should keep us clear of the dog flight as a minimum with what he'll inherit this summer.

If you look at our side/squad then anyone that'd get that squad in the bottom three doesn't deserve to earn any kind of living out of football

 

[Allezfan]

If you look at our side/squad then anyone that'd get that squad in the bottom three doesn't deserve to earn any kind of living out of football

Pretty much.

I get that it's aging and trying to replace this team with players equally good on our budget will be hard (which is why Moyes should prioritise playing the kids, ffs) but this team isn't anything like relegation material.

 

[Ihaters]

Would you agree though mate that those fervently pro-moyes do post the idea of relegation or at least being dragged into the battle seems almost nailed on if he leaves.

Im far from convinced he'll go but i just think We shouldn't let fear of change dismiss any possibility of looking forward. What is certain to me is that if he goes then we need to all get behind his replacement and accept that moyes got time and a new manager would need more of the same.

Neiler thinks it could become a relegation fight, and I guess its not beyond the realm of possibility, neither is progress to the CL or a cup, but both seem equally unlikely to me, perhaps a cup is closer thanks to Moyes squad building though.

My argument was that someone incorrectly posted that there were posts being put up saying there is no one in the world that could keep Everton in the premier league..

Personally I don't fear change, I just don't want it for changes sake, because we have a manager that is an excellent fit for us, any manager won't get money, we need someone who can get as many points as possible from a cheaply built squad, Moyes has already proven very good at this.

Someone (Artetafan I believe) has posted that Moyes gets 14th average net spend and finishes average of 7th.. I see that as defying the odds, its more likely we will get average next time and after a couple of windows we'll find ourselves lower mid table, but there is also the very real chance we could get below average and below average of 14th could leave us exactly where Neiler see's things.

Its a risk, but I honestly believe its one that we don't need to take.

 

[Khalekan]

There is a big difference there IMO, Artetafan.

Whilst many of us were bored with Moyes's tactics there was no call for him to go in the first half of the season.

Everything seemed to be going well and whilst we were drawing too many games, we were doing all right and holding on to a CL qualification spot.

The fans of those clubs you mentioned turned on their managers for much different reasons.

What has prompted this bitter debate, indeed division, among our fans is what we are infering from Moyes's stance re his contract.

I think pretty well most Blues believe, rightly IMO, that happen a more wealthy club came in and offered him a job he'd be gone.

And that he is only keeping his options open by refusing to say he is leaving us in the summer no matter what.

This is leading to a peception among many that if he stays with us it will only be because no "bigger" club wants him.

That is why I want him out.

I don't want to see us lumbered with a mamager whom is only with us under sufference and is brooding because he can't get a better job elsewhere.

And this current ill feeling toward Moyes is making many people look at his record and his playing style over the past decade and more and many are asking "is he all that?"

It is my belief that Moyes has screwed up what was a very promising looking season around Christmas and New Year by acting in an extremely hubristic fashion over a multi million pound contract.

I also fault Kenwright.

Kenwright should have said to Moyes that he will wait until the end of the season and then sit down and make Moyes the offer after seeing what has been achieved on the pitch.

He should have made it clear to Moyes.....and to us, the fans....that the position of manager at Everton Football Club is not merely at the whim on the current incumbent, but the club itself will be the final arbiter of whom leads it on the field of play.

Bill Kenwright has made our club look small time by making that offer prematurely and telling Moyes to take all the time he wants to make his mind up.

As ever, this is all IMO.

 

[Blue Cheese]

Neiler thinks it could become a relegation fight, and I guess its not beyond the realm of possibility, neither is progress to the CL or a cup, but both seem equally unlikely to me, perhaps a cup is closer thanks to Moyes squad building though.

My argument was that someone incorrectly posted, there were posts being put up saying there is no one in the world that could keep Everton in the premier league..

Personally I don't fear change, I just don't want it because we have a manager that is an excellent fit for us, any manager won't get money, we need someone who can get as many points as possible from a cheaply built squad, Moyes has already proven very good at this.

Someone (Artetafan I believe) has posted that Moyes gets 14th average net spend and finishes average of 7th.. I see that as defying the odds, its more likely we will get average next time and after a couple of windows we'll find ourselves lower mid table, but there is also the very real chance we could get below average and below average of 14th could leave us exactly where Neiler see's things.

Its a risk, but I honestly believe its one that we don't need to take.

Nobody is saying Moyes hasn't built a good squad, so I ask you this is he getting maximum potential out of that group of players? Is it beyond the realms of possibility that another manager might be able to motivate this highly talented group to go that extra mile?

Is Moyes the only manager astute in the transfer market, a lot of posters seem to suggest that there is nobody else capable of building a team on such financial restraints.

Truth is we will never know until it happened. Moyes obviously has very good scouts and does his research thoroughly no denying that but to say that no other manager could achieve that just doesn't make any sense.

I personally feel that if some clubs woke up and didn't insist on this managerial revolving door of the same old faces hughes dowie, bruce etcyou know the good old boys, then who isto say that they could unearth another diamond just like we did when Moyes was first appointed and was hungry to prove himself.

 

[Ihaters]

Nobody is saying Moyes hasn't built a good squad, so I ask you this is he getting maximum potential out of that group of players? Is it beyond the realms of possibility that another manager might be able to motivate this highly talented group to go that extra mile?
Is Moyes the only manager astute in the transfer market, a lot of posters seem to suggest that there is nobody else capable of building a team on such financial restraints.

Truth is we will never know until it happened. Moyes obviously has very good scouts and does his research thoroughly no denying that but to say that no other manager could achieve that just doesn't make any sense.

I personally feel that if some clubs woke up and didn't insist on this managerial revolving door of the same old faces hughes dowie, bruce etcyou know the good old boys, then who isto say that they could unearth another diamond just like we did when Moyes was first appointed and was hungry to prove himself.

Okay so it seems to me you don't think Moyes is making the most out of the squad, he's not special at transfers, not particularly good at motivating the players either, can you explain what it is he has that means he finishes in the fight for European places year after year after year despite having a laughable transfer budget that should be seeing us averaging roughly where West Ham are?

Just being there for a long time doesn't mean your going to do well if your not given the tools to do so. He's given no money and every year those he is fighting against spend vast sums, how does being there for another pre season make up for that?

I want to be clear though.. I don't think its impossible that we could progress under a new manger, I just think we won't because to put it simply... most managers are not as good.

 

[Allezfan]

I personally feel that if some clubs woke up and didn't insist on this managerial revolving door of the same old faces hughes dowie, bruce etcyou know the good old boys, then who isto say that they could unearth another diamond just like we did when Moyes was first appointed and was hungry to prove himself.

I think this is very true, mind. If we restrict ourselves to the same old names who manage around the premier league bottom half as replacements we're insane.

 

[Ihaters]

I think this is very true, mind. If we restrict ourselves to the same old names who manage around the premier league bottom half as replacements we're insane.

I'm liking the Southampton manager, I think they've done well there.
I could never understand why people every thought that it was a good idea to get managers who are constantly in relegation dogfights. Even before a ball is kicked you know exactly where you'll be come the end of the season, its a psychological white flag from the start of the campaign.

 

[Allezfan]

Someone (Artetafan I believe) has posted that Moyes gets 14th average net spend and finishes average of 7th.

What I said was that in terms of wages and transfers combined there have been 13 other teams to have spent more than everton per season in the top flight during Moyes' time here.

If the market was always right and every player was worth their transfer fee and wages but no more or no less, we'd be finishing around 14th now (not every year of the last 11 because not all the teams that outspend us now were doing so then). The fact we're not indicates that Moyes is getting performance from his players above what they're valued as and that a lot of his rivals aren't. (Partly because few of the other clubs have had a single man in charge, tbf. It's always harder when you're inheriting players you didn't pay for.)

If you care about league positions per pound, Moyes is your man. There's very few managers with as good a record on finishing 6th with the tenth best paid squad.

But five teams who spent less money than us have won trophies during Moyes time here. If you want trophies, Moyes isn't your man.

 

[Khalekan]

I think this is very true, mind. If we restrict ourselves to the same old names who manage around the premier league bottom half as replacements we're insane.

I wouldn't worry too much about that.

EFC don't make a habit of employing from the merry-go-round type managers.

Kendall and Joe were beloved ex-players whom had made their names as managers at clubs they had reinvigorated and were on the way up.

Colin Harvey was promoted from within to great approval from the fans.

Mike Walker and Gordon Leewere doing great things with "lesser" clubs in the top flight.

Walter Smith was the most successful ever Scottish manager next to Jock Stein.

In fact, Moyes was probably the manager with the least impressive CV we had hired since the Cetterick era.

So if and when Moyes does leave, I can't see his successor being from the Big Sam/Big Mick/Brucie cabal.

 

[Blue Cheese]

Okay so it seems to me you don't think Moyes is making the most out of the squad, he's not special at transfers, not particularly good at motivating the players either, can you explain what it is he has that means he finishes in the fight for European places year after year after year despite having a laughable transfer budget that should be seeing us averaging roughly where West Ham are?

Just being there for a long time doesn't mean your going to do well if your not given the tools to do so. He's given no money and every year those he is fighting against spend vast sums, how does being there for another pre season make up for that?

I want to be clear though.. I don't think its impossible that we could progress under a new manger, I just think we won't because to put it simply... most managers are not as good.

wrong I do think he does well in the transfer market if you read back.

I just think Moyes has resigned himself to being a nearly man and it filters down through the club and a lot of fans have bought into that philosophy. When he first came he was hungry to prove himself and I don't see that fire anymore that is why i think the time has come to part company.

 

[Titus Bramble]

I'm on the fence at the moment. After the Wigan game I was of the opinion that if he stays then great, if he goes then we'll get someone else. But then after a performance and result like City last week, although all is not forgiven, it shows what Moyes and his players are capable of.

Also, in terms of transfers, I think we would all agree that Fellaini is going in the summer and there is already some money there based on the Leroy Fer 'transfer'. Moyes has said several times this season that his current squad is the best he has had. Would he walk away from the possibility of having a potential £20+ million to improve the team?

Basically I don't know FFS.

 

[Carlito]

I don't know why these threads always descend into arguments about whether or not Everton should get rid. Moyes is leaving of his own accord.

 

[Bluenose1995]

he would be stupid to leave as like people said he will have a good £20-25 mil atleast to spend imo from the Felli money and the tv cash coming in that money could see us losing Felli but bringing in 3-4 good £8-10 mil players who can not only make our First 11 stronger but also flesh the squad out, and have good players like Osman, Distin and hopefully Jelavic on the bench available when needed to rotate.

 

[Allezfan]

I don't know why these debates always descend into arguments about whether or not Everton should get rid. Moyes is leaving of his own accord.

I know he is.

The fans ultimately have no say on whether he stays or goes, but the question asked is whether the majority of fans think 'good riddance' or not.

Somebody was saying on another thread that the majority of fans want him gone, not 'think he's going' but 'would rather he left then didn't'. This poll was just a way of testing that theory.

I'm interested in people's opinions in things they can't directly affect themselves, if you're not then I have to wonder why you're reading a forum. Nothing anyone types here will effect what actually happens.